SuperJail Warden
Member
+161|1135
The U.S. military will allow transgender people to serve openly in the military for the first time in U.S. history.

“This is the right thing to do for our people and for the force,” Secretary of Defense Ash Carter said Thursday. “We’re talking about talented Americans who are serving with distinction or who want the opportunity to serve. We can’t allow barriers unrelated to a person’s qualifications prevent us from recruiting and retaining those who can best accomplish the mission."
This is an awful idea. I can't understand why anyone would think this is the right thing to do. Why would the military want to introduce emotionally unstable and in crisis individuals into a high stress armed environment? This administration pisses me off so much sometimes.
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+625|3706|Washington St.
when they get released from the military theyre emotionally unstable and in crisis.
transgender people are just one step ahead. they cut out the middle man
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+697|4100|United States of America
I mean, luckily it's a choice to join the military. It's not like there's a package deal of "get your transgender-ing FREE if you ENLIST TODAY!"
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,959|2773|London, England
Oh, that'll be coming next, guaranteed.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,959|2773|London, England
"We're being discriminated against! You have to cover our hormones and surgery!"

Last edited by Jay (2016-06-30 13:10:05)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
unnamednewbie13
That's no place to put a mug.
+1,739|4187|Tipping, China

They are already in the military. The Pentagon is just legitimizing them years after "don't ask, don't tell" became defunct. Allowing gays and transgendered people to serve will actually help the military perform a more accurate census on its membership. Removing the onus will allow current members to seek support without fear of discharge and should actually result in improved mental health. Allowing them to serve will allow the military to qualify previously ineligible applicants for undermanned roles.

We need to bar transgender people on the basis of being transgendered about as much as we needed the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Which is to say, not at all. That said, implementation will take some time. Truman mandated military racial integration in '48. I'm sure plenty of 'logistical concerns' were angrily trumpeted then as well, and all-black units persisted into the Korean War.

I could go on about the evolution of rights in the military and how the progression civil rights for some groups lag behind that of others as society continues to grind on, but in the end it's a Macbeth thread.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+161|1135
Gay people in the military is totally different and I have supported that for years.

Transgenderism = gender dysphoria = mental illness.

These people need help in a safe and compassionate place. They have rights that need to be protected. The military is not the place for either of those. They can join the Peace Corp.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,772|4047|949

transgender people are by default emotionally unstable and in crisis

transgender people are the only people potentially joining the military who are emotionally unstable and in crisis

Two critical gems from Macbeth.  Keep up the good work!
unnamednewbie13
That's no place to put a mug.
+1,739|4187|Tipping, China

Macbeth, there are still tons of bigoted yokels who consider homosexuality to be a mental illness. The DSM-5 doesn't even consider gender dysphoria (formerly GID) to be a mental disorder.

Get with the times.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+161|1135
According to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, 65% of transgender people are or were mentally ill at some time in their lives. That is an insane rate.

It is only because of political correctness that GID isn't considered a serious illness needing attention. You should be ashamed you are encouraging the sick to hurt themselves.
unnamednewbie13
That's no place to put a mug.
+1,739|4187|Tipping, China

The best way to help a group especially targeted for violence and discrimination by practically institutionalized intolerance is to sweep them under the rug and tell them to stay away from the baleful gaze of society. Macbethian logic.

And what authority do you even have to make that claim about gender dysphoria? Do you also want to roll back 'PTSD' to its non-PC predecessor 'cowardice' so we can re-implement regular battlefield executions? How's your dowsing rod collection going these days.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,772|4047|949

do you think societal pressure and non-acceptance of transgenders could possibly play a role in the insanely high rate of mental illness?

being mentally ill yourself, do you understand having a mental illness does not necessarily mean you can't function normally, and some illnesses are temporary and episodic?  Are you aware some conditions can be effectively managed with medicine and/or therapy?


Pointing out logical fallacies equals encouraging the sick to hurt themselves.  More logic from Macbeth coming soon!
SuperJail Warden
Member
+161|1135
You guys are getting off track. I am not judging them as individuals or as a group. They deserve help in a kind, considerate, caring, and compassionate way. But they cannot get that care in the military. The military is neither equipped or intended to support the mentally ill.

I am okay with transgender people. I could roommate with one or have them over at BBQ. They just should not be in the military. For their own good.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,772|4047|949

of course you aren't judging the emotionally unstable, mentally ill and in crisis trans community.  How could anyone possibly come to that conclusion based on your OP?

I agree with your assessment that the military is not equipped to deal with and support the mentally ill.  It's actively illustrated with the high rates of PTSD and suicide common in the armed forces (something like 25% of active duty members have PTSD, and suicide rates are higher for active/veteran soldiers than for the general population).  Why aren't you advocating for increased resources and focus on the current mental illness problem within the military, regardless of sexual orientation or identity?  Why focus on trans? 

For their own good.  The assumption you make is that these people don't know what is good for them, but you, cum-passionate Macbeth do.

That's right, poor, unknowing trans people.  Macbeth welcomes you into his warm, empathetic bosom.  Come to daddy.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4131

Jay wrote:

"We're being discriminated against! You have to cover our hormones and surgery!"
other militaries allow trans to serve and have none of what youre talking about.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
uziq
Member
+138|867

SuperJail Warden wrote:

According to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, 65% of transgender people are or were mentally ill at some time in their lives. That is an insane rate.

It is only because of political correctness that GID isn't considered a serious illness needing attention. You should be ashamed you are encouraging the sick to hurt themselves.
you're acting as if mental illness is some objective thing that people definitely fall into. the category of mental illness is socially constructed and is (and has been, historically) as much about social norms and codes of behaviour as anything else. the whole institution of mental health was built on bourgeois ideology – that's the starting point for 'deviant' or 'undesirable' behaviour. with that in mind, compounded with the fact that society has a widespread discriminative streak against these people, who no doubt internalise all that suspicion and enmity as anxiety and angst -- are you at all surprised?

accepting trans people into careers they were formally barred from is one step closer towards shifting those goalposts of social norms and convention. you know, the stuff that triggers and compounds the social dis-ease in the first place. your analysis is basically post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Last edited by uziq (2016-06-30 23:50:22)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,959|2773|London, England

Cybargs wrote:

Jay wrote:

"We're being discriminated against! You have to cover our hormones and surgery!"
other militaries allow trans to serve and have none of what youre talking about.
Ok
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,590|3521|eXtreme to the max

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

According to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, 65% of transgender people are or were mentally ill at some time in their lives. That is an insane rate.

It is only because of political correctness that GID isn't considered a serious illness needing attention. You should be ashamed you are encouraging the sick to hurt themselves.
you're acting as if mental illness is some objective thing that people definitely fall into. the category of mental illness is socially constructed and is (and has been, historically) as much about social norms and codes of behaviour as anything else. the whole institution of mental health was built on bourgeois ideology – that's the starting point for 'deviant' or 'undesirable' behaviour. with that in mind, compounded with the fact that society has a widespread discriminative streak against these people, who no doubt internalise all that suspicion and enmity as anxiety and angst -- are you at all surprised?

accepting trans people into careers they were formally barred from is one step closer towards shifting those goalposts of social norms and convention. you know, the stuff that triggers and compounds the social dis-ease in the first place. your analysis is basically post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Sure, but really the military probably isn't the place for transgender people.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
SuperJail Warden
Member
+161|1135
This NatGeo cover upset a lot of people.
https://i.imgur.com/mrzgzZ1.jpg
I don't see why people are upset about this or angry at those people. They look like any other person you would see walking around NYC on a Friday afternoon. I don't understand why so many wish harm on them.
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+625|3706|Washington St.
God
Pocshy2.0
Member
+23|786

SuperJail Warden wrote:

This NatGeo cover upset a lot of people.
TODO: FIX GAL IMAGES
I don't see why people are upset about this or angry at those people. They look like any other person you would see walking around NYC on a Friday afternoon. I don't understand why so many wish harm on them.
Please put more effort into your trolls. There was a golden Macbeth age when nobody could quite tell what the game was. Bring it back.

Last edited by Pocshy2.0 (2016-12-16 16:02:58)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+161|1135
I am being serious. They don't look much more different than a lot of teens and college students I see around here. I know we are all in our late 20's but this is just the way teens and young adults dress now. It doesn't bother me like I am sure it does Joe Evangelical. And everything annoys Joe Evangelical.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+697|4100|United States of America
But what if they were naked?
Pocshy2.0
Member
+23|786
To be real for a moment, though, and to express a deeply unpopular opinion, but don't we send the people in the military off to potentially die? Shouldn't the evangelicals who dislike a group actually desire them to enter the military? I dunno man, if I were Machiavellian I'd say more trannys on the front line could do this great nation some good.

EDIT - I guess the extension of the argument is that they should also be firefighters, police officers, and MMA fighters.

Last edited by Pocshy2.0 (2016-12-16 18:15:00)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,959|2773|London, England
They're joining the military to get their sex change operations done on the public dime. Fuck that. Let them serve but make them pay for their own operations.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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