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Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|4306|Noizyland

Yay Donald! So pleased that I get to see a four-time bankrupt try to present himself as being fiscally responsible.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,592|3637|eXtreme to the maX
https://hlinkoreport.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/gop_desk_deficit.jpg?w=640
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia

RTHKI wrote:

its like they want <incert the candidate that gets elected name here> to win
really? hmmm, when did hear that before? oh, wait...
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+166|1251
Russia is a place of misery and suffering. You people have no right to mock our political system.
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|4212|Disaster Free Zone

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Russia is a place of misery and suffering. You people have no right to mock our political system.
Typical American argument, "It's not the worst, therefore it must be the best so no point in changing anything"
Pocshy2.0
Member
+23|902
I think I actually pay more attention to American elections than I do Canadian, if only because it seems you can predict the platform of Canadian politicians based on the narrative established in the States. In many ways we just see how things were received in the States and either follow suit or nope the fuck out of that issue.

Also, we don't have absurd candidates like Trump running, so really it's not enough like a soap opera.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,773|4163|949

DrunkFace wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Russia is a place of misery and suffering. You people have no right to mock our political system.
Typical American argument, "It's not the worst, therefore it must be the best so no point in changing anything"
huh?
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|2710|Sydney
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,773|4163|949

maybe if we just don't acknowledge him he will go away
RTHKI
MOTOGPGPGPGPGPGPGP
+1,615|4268|THE X GAMES
fox will acknowledge him
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/6644/Xj4f2.png
sir derpington
Post limited. Contact Admin to Be Promoted.
+2|747
Not sure you can totally discredit someone for saying what a lot of people are thinking.  I mean you want to point at his business background...well chicago is doing well lol.  Its a goddamn warzone.  No i would not vote for trump but i enjoy someone saying what they think...and not saying what they think people want to hear
uziq
Member
+138|983

sir derpington wrote:

Not sure you can totally discredit someone for saying what a lot of people are thinking.  I mean you want to point at his business background...well chicago is doing well lol.  Its a goddamn warzone.  No i would not vote for trump but i enjoy someone saying what they think...and not saying what they think people want to hear
this is the exact same argument a bunch of morons in the UK made about UKIP and their snake oil salesman, nigel farage. he essentially espoused the views of blue-collar workers in greasy cafés, pubs, and roadside diners the nation over, in the language of a petty and pugnacious bigot. compared to the slick PR and bureaucratic facelessness of the modern political class (who are all basically PR experts or lawyers themselves), this was welcomed as some sort of perversely 'positive' turnaround. nevermind that the actual policies of these twonks is completely against the best interests of the mass population or 'working man'. proles just vote for the loudmouth because he seems like a 'bloke' they can identify with. even if that guy with the street talk is a billionaire or a neoliberal whippet. moronic state of affairs.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,592|3637|eXtreme to the maX
Nigel Farage DID say what people were thinking, that hipsters and self-interested minorities don't like it and don't respond democratically is the problem.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic … onnet.html
"Protest organiser and HIV activist Dan Glass said the group was in fancy dress and included “migrants, HIV activists, gay people, disabled people and breastfeeding mums”."
Yes, that's what your average blue-collar voter cares about, migrants, gays and HIV 'activists'
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
uziq
Member
+138|983
there's a vicious feedback loop between blue-collar workers and incredibly right-wing mass media outlets, normally some Murdoch rag, who push a very insidious agenda. your average white van man gets the totality of his political reportage and world news from organs of vile sexism and xenophobia. no surprise a bunch of working class people blame immigrants, gays and Jews for everything. do some actual economic analysis – or any thinking at all – and it's fairly obvious that polish immigrants aren't the cause of the northern working class's plight. and so on and so forth.

farage appealed to the fears and prejudices of middle England, of course. but it was cynical. he claimed to share the best interests of the British working class but was basically an unhinged Thatcherite. that doesn't work.

what is your obsession with hipsters? I don't think the hipster stereotype in the UK has a political element. what the hell do a small bunch of creatives in East London have to do with political commentary? take it from me, they don't vote. if they do, it's for some trendy bollocks like Greens.

Last edited by uziq (2015-07-10 03:51:52)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,592|3637|eXtreme to the maX
Sure, but the fact is he said what the voters were thinking.

If the voters want migrants blocked then maybe that's what a govt of the people should do?
Or should we buy into the idea that the average voter is an ignorant prole and the tory elite should tell them whats best for them, or rather whats best for the city bankers?
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
uziq
Member
+138|983
democracy is not populism. it's not about obeying the mob when they come after an innocent party with their pitchforks. especially when the vitriol and opinion is shaped by corporate news media. especially when the political demagogues whipping them up are ex-bankers who find it convenient to blame the banking crisis on Eastern Europeans who spend 10 hours a day on their knees digging up root vegetables. that is not a healthy, functioning democracy. and hardly any democracy in the history of the political system has had such a crassly populist approach (actually, France did for a few years perhaps – that worked out really well, didn't it). it's not merely majority rule. the majority of people in America think angels exist, need I remind you.

the alternative isn't paternalism, let alone a specifically Tory-flavoured one. the alternative is expecting each citizen to partake in society, what a political scientist would call 'the public sphere', as a rational subject. democracy is predicated on people voting with balanced, open information and as few prejudices as possible. when you simply unleash uneducated mob fury, you get the guillotine and people accusing their neighbours of treason for stealing a loaf of bread. crowds and masses are irrational – this was a basic tenet of crowd psychology by about 1880.

please stop playing dumb.

Last edited by uziq (2015-07-10 05:20:58)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,592|3637|eXtreme to the maX
I think you're making a linkage which isn't there, I don't think anyone blames polish labourers for the banking crisis - people just don't want more than a certain level of unrestricted migration into their country.

This isn't restricted to whippet-racing pie-eating northern bastards, its a global phenomenon, that this doesn't sit perfectly with socialist theory ought to cause socialists to revise their theory, not keep telling everyone they're wrong.
Come on, even your hero admits it was an error.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 … take-poles

The way the lefties are pissing in everyones bathwater we'll have another Hitler soon enough and Farage will look like Mr Soft, then you'll be crying.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
SuperJail Warden
Member
+166|1251
especially when the political demagogues whipping them up are ex-bankers who find it convenient to blame the banking crisis on Eastern Europeans who spend 10 hours a day on their knees digging up root vegetables.
I read a lot of right wing news and listen to their radio broadcast. It's now a meme that the financial crisis was caused by the democrats forcing banks to give minorities home loans. As if the banks didn't lobby for government backed bad loans.

I have heard arguments from moderate republicans that Reagan's populism ruined conservative politics and kinda electorally doomed them. The right used to consist of serious leaders whose first priority was fighting communism and building strong national defense and institutions. Now it is about shrinking every part of the government, cutting taxes for the wealthy, and hating on groups of people who are making up larger and larger shares of the population. It is not sustainable for both the country and their political party.
uziq
Member
+138|983
dilbert you are incoherent. my hero... jack straw? lol. I'm pretty sure I was about 13 the last time he was relevant. where do you pull this stuff from?

a linkage that isn't there: no. as I've said before, the extent of a working class person's interest in politics is how it directly affects his wallet, his job prospects, and his domestic life. everything else is abstract. a massive global economic downturn has caused suffering and misery in working class communities. they are blaming immigrants for this, because they are the easily identifiable bogeyman who supposedly affect one of those immediate concerns (jobs). nevermind that they are doing agricultural work that Britons wouldn't do. nevermind that their effect on the economy hasn't been deleterious, not to the extent of the bull in the china shop of big banks and financial institutions. the immigrants are a local issue and thus they are a locus for fear and resentment. the actions of bankers in Liverpool Street is abstract and remote. that's how it works. and that's why listening to xenophobic hate-mongering parties like UKIP is a terrible idea. they appeal to the emotions of people with little interest in policy or actual government. meanwhile the real structural and systemic causes of the crisis are unaddressed – or even aided and abetted – by the same parties.

I don't know what your little englander problem is with poles. maybe there are arguments to be made about how new labour immigration was out of control. but did it cause the current crisis? did it cause the same level of harm to our society and its civic life? of course not. small ethnic ghettoes may be a cultural blight but they're not affecting economic output. don't start babbling about welfare and benefit cheats, either, as if that dent in the budget compares to tax evasion and widespread recession and unemployment.

Last edited by uziq (2015-07-10 07:16:08)

sir derpington
Post limited. Contact Admin to Be Promoted.
+2|747

uziq wrote:

sir derpington wrote:

Not sure you can totally discredit someone for saying what a lot of people are thinking.  I mean you want to point at his business background...well chicago is doing well lol.  Its a goddamn warzone.  No i would not vote for trump but i enjoy someone saying what they think...and not saying what they think people want to hear
this is the exact same argument a bunch of morons in the UK made about UKIP and their snake oil salesman, nigel farage. he essentially espoused the views of blue-collar workers in greasy cafés, pubs, and roadside diners the nation over, in the language of a petty and pugnacious bigot. compared to the slick PR and bureaucratic facelessness of the modern political class (who are all basically PR experts or lawyers themselves), this was welcomed as some sort of perversely 'positive' turnaround. nevermind that the actual policies of these twonks is completely against the best interests of the mass population or 'working man'. proles just vote for the loudmouth because he seems like a 'bloke' they can identify with. even if that guy with the street talk is a billionaire or a neoliberal whippet. moronic state of affairs.
I get that...im just saying, as sad as it is, he is a welcome change from the nomal stuff
uziq
Member
+138|983
pretty sure the sheep say that every time a new wolffish despot turns up.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,959|2889|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

especially when the political demagogues whipping them up are ex-bankers who find it convenient to blame the banking crisis on Eastern Europeans who spend 10 hours a day on their knees digging up root vegetables.
I read a lot of right wing news and listen to their radio broadcast. It's now a meme that the financial crisis was caused by the democrats forcing banks to give minorities home loans. As if the banks didn't lobby for government backed bad loans.

I have heard arguments from moderate republicans that Reagan's populism ruined conservative politics and kinda electorally doomed them. The right used to consist of serious leaders whose first priority was fighting communism and building strong national defense and institutions. Now it is about shrinking every part of the government, cutting taxes for the wealthy, and hating on groups of people who are making up larger and larger shares of the population. It is not sustainable for both the country and their political party.
What's that got to do with Reagan? He increased spending and raised taxes. His deficit spending set the tone for the past 30 years. Fighting communism and spending on national defense did nothing but make us poorer.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
sir derpington
Post limited. Contact Admin to Be Promoted.
+2|747

uziq wrote:

pretty sure the sheep say that every time a new wolffish despot turns up.
K...im not voting for him ffs or putting a bumper sticker on my car
SuperJail Warden
Member
+166|1251

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

especially when the political demagogues whipping them up are ex-bankers who find it convenient to blame the banking crisis on Eastern Europeans who spend 10 hours a day on their knees digging up root vegetables.
I read a lot of right wing news and listen to their radio broadcast. It's now a meme that the financial crisis was caused by the democrats forcing banks to give minorities home loans. As if the banks didn't lobby for government backed bad loans.

I have heard arguments from moderate republicans that Reagan's populism ruined conservative politics and kinda electorally doomed them. The right used to consist of serious leaders whose first priority was fighting communism and building strong national defense and institutions. Now it is about shrinking every part of the government, cutting taxes for the wealthy, and hating on groups of people who are making up larger and larger shares of the population. It is not sustainable for both the country and their political party.
What's that got to do with Reagan? He increased spending and raised taxes. His deficit spending set the tone for the past 30 years. Fighting communism and spending on national defense did nothing but make us poorer.
Reagan's big tent approach of bringing in and encouraging the religious right is the reason the GOP is so screwed up. Giving those people a platform and telling them their Christian persecutionl/all or nothing behavior was okay fucked things up.

You missed the part about strong national institutions. The GOP of the 60's wouldn't be celebrating shutting down our import-export bank in order to spite the president.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,959|2889|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:


I read a lot of right wing news and listen to their radio broadcast. It's now a meme that the financial crisis was caused by the democrats forcing banks to give minorities home loans. As if the banks didn't lobby for government backed bad loans.

I have heard arguments from moderate republicans that Reagan's populism ruined conservative politics and kinda electorally doomed them. The right used to consist of serious leaders whose first priority was fighting communism and building strong national defense and institutions. Now it is about shrinking every part of the government, cutting taxes for the wealthy, and hating on groups of people who are making up larger and larger shares of the population. It is not sustainable for both the country and their political party.
What's that got to do with Reagan? He increased spending and raised taxes. His deficit spending set the tone for the past 30 years. Fighting communism and spending on national defense did nothing but make us poorer.
Reagan's big tent approach of bringing in and encouraging the religious right is the reason the GOP is so screwed up. Giving those people a platform and telling them their Christian persecutionl/all or nothing behavior was okay fucked things up.

You missed the part about strong national institutions. The GOP of the 60's wouldn't be celebrating shutting down our import-export bank in order to spite the president.
They're celebrating the shutdown because it was crony capitalism at it's worst. Do you believe Boeing requires corporate welfare to survive? If it does, should it? The answer is no to both. Fanny and Freddie should be next. They allow banks to originate stupid loans with zero repercussions.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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