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uziq
Member
+138|892

Shahter wrote:

uziq wrote:

Shahter wrote:


that's "democracy" for you.
i think we'd all prefer 'insane' democracy to putin-mania.
"all"?
"putin-mania"?
ummm... okay.

DesertFox- wrote:

I know that everyone running for president is crazy. If you look at the U.S. with all its issues and think "I should be in charge", you're out of your fucking mind. The Republican candidates just need to hide it better.
"crazy" is not really the problem. the way they can put just about anyone in the white house using modern information manipulation technologies  - that what's really bothersome, don't you think so?
http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4215|Moscow, Russia
uh... right. there's a picture there. which means...?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+138|892
i guess living in a society with such a free and open flow of information makes it hard for you to grasp rudimentary research skills.

the picture means that russia is ranked 148th in the world for press freedom.

there's plenty on their site about russia but here's a recent report:

The Russian state is characterized by a lack of political pluralism and widespread corruption. In a country where respect for human rights is far from given, state control of the broadcast media, arbitrary use of an anti-extremism law and, above all, impunity for acts of violence against journalists, especially in the North Caucasus, are the main media freedom violations..

Dmitry Medvedev showed signs of wanting to allow more freedom after being installed as president in 2008, but the Putin era’s political trends reaffirmed themselves. Centralized control of the regions, the creation of something close to a one-party system and draconian excesses in the course of combating terrorism are the main features of a government with little tolerance of criticism.

Although most of the Russian population gets its news from TV, there is a glaring lack of diversity in the broadcast media. As for the print media, just a few national newspapers led by Novaya Gazeta escape control and ensure a minimum of pluralism. Radio Ekho Moskvy and Radio Svoboda are other examples of independent news outlets.

At the local level, the situation is more varied. Some regions, such as Perm, enjoyed relatively free mediawhile in other regions the media are entirely controlled by the local political authorities or powerful figures often linked to major energy or industrial groups. Despite intense pressure, a few media manage to do independent reporting in the Caucasus, where Dosh and Chernovik are examples of journalistic dedication.

Although lawsuits and prosecutions are common, violence continues to be the main problem. Physical attacks on journalists are frequent but usually go unpunished despite President Medvedev’s statements on the subject. According to the Glasnost Defence Foundation, a Reporters Without Borders partner organization, there were at least 58 physical attacks on journalists in 2010.

As many journalists constantly feel unsafe, they tend to censor themselves. Corrupt senior officials, abuses by the security forces and environmental issues (http://en.rsf.org/deforestation-and...) continue to be sensitive subjects. Coverage of the protests against the destruction of Khimki forest, to the north of Moscow, has been accompanied by many physical attacks on journalists such as Mikhail Beketov.

After 2009, a black year in which five journalists were killed in connection with their work, the murders of Magomedsharif Sultanmagomedov in 2010 and Yakhya Magomedov in 2011 served as reminders that the North Caucasus continues to the most dangerous region for journalists.

President Kadyrov behaves like a tyrant in Chechnya but the lawlessness extends to other parts of the Caucasus, especially Dagestan, endangering the lives of the journalists who work there. A total of 26 journalists have been killed in connection with their work in Russia since 2000. The investigations into their murders are sluggish and rarely reach the presumably highly-placed or well-protected instigators.

Certain emblematic cases experienced significant progress in the second quarter of 2011. The presumed hit-man in Anna Politkovskaya’s murder was finally arrested and two people were convicted of Anastasia Baburova’s murder but it would be rash to assume that the era of impunity is over.

The Internet, a space where independent voices still find expression, is now being targeted by the authorities, who aretrying to develop online filtering and surveillance. Bloggers are the victims of lawsuits and prosecutions, often under the “anti-extremism” law, which was amended in July 2007.

Cyber-attacks are also on the increase, targeting above all blogging platforms such as LiveJouranal and the websites of independent newspapers such as Novaya Gazeta. The growing frequency of website blocking and attacks on bloggers resulted in Russia being including in the countries “under surveillance” in the Enemies of the Internet report that Reporters Without Borders released on 12 March 2011.

Censorship of the Internet, like censorship of the media, is nowadays largely decentralized. But although strong leadership from the top in all areas of society is now a guiding principle for the authorities, admonishments about cyber-censorship have been strangely slow in coming.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4215|Moscow, Russia

uziq wrote:

i guess living in a society with such a free and open flow of information makes it hard for you to grasp rudimentary research skills.
oh, i'm quite capable of researching stuff for myself, thank you very much. my questions are simply:

the picture means that russia is ranked 148th in the world for press freedom.
1. really? that picture means that? says who?

2. there should be "freedom of press"? why? so they can be payed to report whatever it is the highest bidder wants them to report?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159
One of my best friends in high school was from Ukraine. He said he once had to eat nothing but potatoes for a month.
uziq
Member
+138|892
yeah sure it's only the western system that is interested in money, profit, or greed. only 'highest bidders' affect the capitalistic west, right. never mind the industrial and energy oligarchs of russia or the repressive state apparatus, and their own stakes in the media and PR there.

all those russian billionaires in london – totally not beneficiaries of a system interested in 'highest bidders'.

you are absolutely inane. if you'd rather live in a society that doesn't celebrate freedom of speech and transparency, that's weird but fine i guess. i think the idea is that it's easier to achieve a nuanced truth or perspective if you have a pluralism, or multiple accounts. that the political process runs better when it is held accountable by public discourse and institutions. but no, you'd rather focus on the fact that there's a corporate media, too. no one is even celebrating the corporate media here, nor holding them up as patrons of free speech and open democracy. we're talking about the dissident organisations that are allowed to exist and publish in the west, to find their own audience. that hardly exists in russia. but apparently you prefer it because money stains everything in the west, and doesn't affect russia at all.

also this shit where you constantly call out the 'source' of every contrary or critical opinion got tired about 5 years ago. you'll only be satisfied with a negative opinion of russia and it's authors when they come from one and the same source: putin's beautiful mouth. anyone else is obviously compromised. yawn.

twonk

Last edited by uziq (2015-05-07 12:48:39)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159
For the life of me I will never understand why the Russians are the way they are. All of the other white people countries are on the same page regarding security and economics. Everyone makes money and gets to travel and enjoy each other's stuff. It is not like the Russian leaders are going to be worse off for any of this. I guess you get "respect" or something out of it. It's your loss.
uziq
Member
+138|892
russia is still in so many ways the dark ages, peasant society it has been throughout much of history. without orthodox religion or the aristocracy the majority of the population are left to be superstitious and in love with 'big men' personalities. the USSR is responsible for most of their backwardness, because it extinguished the hopes of liberalism and because of its disastrous mismanagement of the transition from their peasant-rural society to a modern-industrial one (even in classical marxian theory the idea is that you're meant to go through a relatively stable stage of bourgeois industrialism before you achieve socialist utopia). it's the same with china being a cultural wasteland of tasteless and gauche industrials now, after mao killed off several dozen generations of organic development. most of russia's emerging middle-class went into exile in the rest of europe and were absorbed there. what you have left now is the residual peasant lumpenproles and the new oligarch strong-man / security state servants who sucked all the life out of the country after 1992 when the country went full hobbesian leviathan.

shithole.

Last edited by uziq (2015-05-07 15:50:40)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159
You are being unfair to China. They may be a single party state but their political machine isn't entirely self serving. Their leaders are doing everything they can to integrate their country into the global economy. They throw money at western colleges to build Chinese study programs so westerners can learn their history, language, and how to draw pandas. They aren't trying to get the south american countries to hate us or arming Muslims to fight us. They make our stuff, buy our debt, watch our watch our movies and t.v. shows when they like. Then send their kids to live and park their money here. They are playing a smart game.

Russia is just being stupid and antagonizing people who aren't even interested in them. Before they started killing their own people in Ukraine, most Americans didn't have any issues with Russian people. They were filed next to the Polish and Germans in the modern American psyche. America is obsessed with fighting Muslims. They could have worked that to their profit. Would have made a lot of money and popularity. But instead they want to fight the cold war again.

a stupid, stupid country
uziq
Member
+138|892
the chinese money being funnelled into western institutions, particularly universities, is worrying rather than encouraging. it's trying to inoculate their history and present a 'friendly' face of china – the soft approach to power. 'integration' in a charitable sense, yes, but more like thinly-disguised cash bribes in return for favourable research and good PR. same deal with africa. they are not getting involved with that continent out of a benign interest to see african states do well. (none of this is particularly evil as the west did far worse when it had its own period of foreign expansion and involvement).

my point was more that current chinese wealthy have no real cultural tradition or sense of taste to appeal to, because their 'refined' culture was decimated in the name of some brute ideal. same thing with the russians. all the smart ones went to paris and london as white faction liberals, became governesses and good little european subjects. russian culture brought more benefits to 1910 paris than it ever did to moscow. now it's a shithole and all it has is the indigent ex-industrial poor who love drinking vodka and getting into car accidents and putin-lovers who are clinging to the last vestiges of russian nationalist pride. the reason putin started picking fights in his backyard is because he was deadweight, previous to this. expanding abroad and hyping up 'imperialists in eastern europe' is an easy way to get a fearful and depressed population backing you. i guess the russian people were no longer inspired by murdering muslim school-kids in chechyna. they wanted the seaside in crimea to help them forget their bleak mafia-state at home.

Last edited by uziq (2015-05-07 16:18:46)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,959|2798|London, England

uziq wrote:

i guess living in a society with such a free and open flow of information makes it hard for you to grasp rudimentary research skills.

the picture means that russia is ranked 148th in the world for press freedom.

there's plenty on their site about russia but here's a recent report:

The Russian state is characterized by a lack of political pluralism and widespread corruption. In a country where respect for human rights is far from given, state control of the broadcast media, arbitrary use of an anti-extremism law and, above all, impunity for acts of violence against journalists, especially in the North Caucasus, are the main media freedom violations..

Dmitry Medvedev showed signs of wanting to allow more freedom after being installed as president in 2008, but the Putin era’s political trends reaffirmed themselves. Centralized control of the regions, the creation of something close to a one-party system and draconian excesses in the course of combating terrorism are the main features of a government with little tolerance of criticism.

Although most of the Russian population gets its news from TV, there is a glaring lack of diversity in the broadcast media. As for the print media, just a few national newspapers led by Novaya Gazeta escape control and ensure a minimum of pluralism. Radio Ekho Moskvy and Radio Svoboda are other examples of independent news outlets.

At the local level, the situation is more varied. Some regions, such as Perm, enjoyed relatively free mediawhile in other regions the media are entirely controlled by the local political authorities or powerful figures often linked to major energy or industrial groups. Despite intense pressure, a few media manage to do independent reporting in the Caucasus, where Dosh and Chernovik are examples of journalistic dedication.

Although lawsuits and prosecutions are common, violence continues to be the main problem. Physical attacks on journalists are frequent but usually go unpunished despite President Medvedev’s statements on the subject. According to the Glasnost Defence Foundation, a Reporters Without Borders partner organization, there were at least 58 physical attacks on journalists in 2010.

As many journalists constantly feel unsafe, they tend to censor themselves. Corrupt senior officials, abuses by the security forces and environmental issues (http://en.rsf.org/deforestation-and...) continue to be sensitive subjects. Coverage of the protests against the destruction of Khimki forest, to the north of Moscow, has been accompanied by many physical attacks on journalists such as Mikhail Beketov.

After 2009, a black year in which five journalists were killed in connection with their work, the murders of Magomedsharif Sultanmagomedov in 2010 and Yakhya Magomedov in 2011 served as reminders that the North Caucasus continues to the most dangerous region for journalists.

President Kadyrov behaves like a tyrant in Chechnya but the lawlessness extends to other parts of the Caucasus, especially Dagestan, endangering the lives of the journalists who work there. A total of 26 journalists have been killed in connection with their work in Russia since 2000. The investigations into their murders are sluggish and rarely reach the presumably highly-placed or well-protected instigators.

Certain emblematic cases experienced significant progress in the second quarter of 2011. The presumed hit-man in Anna Politkovskaya’s murder was finally arrested and two people were convicted of Anastasia Baburova’s murder but it would be rash to assume that the era of impunity is over.

The Internet, a space where independent voices still find expression, is now being targeted by the authorities, who aretrying to develop online filtering and surveillance. Bloggers are the victims of lawsuits and prosecutions, often under the “anti-extremism” law, which was amended in July 2007.

Cyber-attacks are also on the increase, targeting above all blogging platforms such as LiveJouranal and the websites of independent newspapers such as Novaya Gazeta. The growing frequency of website blocking and attacks on bloggers resulted in Russia being including in the countries “under surveillance” in the Enemies of the Internet report that Reporters Without Borders released on 12 March 2011.

Censorship of the Internet, like censorship of the media, is nowadays largely decentralized. But although strong leadership from the top in all areas of society is now a guiding principle for the authorities, admonishments about cyber-censorship have been strangely slow in coming.
Propaganda
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4156

uziq wrote:

the chinese money being funnelled into western institutions, particularly universities, is worrying rather than encouraging. it's trying to inoculate their history and present a 'friendly' face of china – the soft approach to power. 'integration' in a charitable sense, yes, but more like thinly-disguised cash bribes in return for favourable research and good PR. same deal with africa. they are not getting involved with that continent out of a benign interest to see african states do well. (none of this is particularly evil as the west did far worse when it had its own period of foreign expansion and involvement).
A lot of them are cheating fucking scum buying up degrees. It's been a huge issue here in aussieland. I have a mate who works at my uni's 'foundation' office and he had a parent who tired to pay him 15k AUD to let their kid pass so he can go on to do civil engineering. yeah naw fuck that.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
uziq
Member
+138|892
we're not talking about students. we're talking about 'research groups' and 'schools' and new buildings being paid for by the chinese state, or some loosely affiliated, money funnelling organisation, to promote china. 'confucian institutes' they are normally called, or something like that. they try to present themselves as centres of disinterested historical research, promoting study and understanding of chinese culture. they are normally a front for historical revisionism and indoctrinating people with the benefits of confucian thinking, wholesale. but there's so much money involved that many institutions gladly take it.

again, not the gravest ill in my opinion – more a quibble of academic integrity. plenty of UK universities are setting up terrible satellite schools and 'branded campuses' in india and china and the middle-east anyway, for much the same reason: $$$.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4215|Moscow, Russia

uziq wrote:

yeah sure it's only the western system that is interested in money, profit, or greed. only 'highest bidders' affect the capitalistic west, right. never mind the industrial and energy oligarchs of russia or the repressive state apparatus, and their own stakes in the media and PR there.
why should we never mind the russian oligarchs? they are as much a part of this "freedom of press" circle jerk as everybody else.

all those russian billionaires in london – totally not beneficiaries of a system interested in 'highest bidders'.
they are. your point?

you are absolutely inane. if you'd rather live in a society that doesn't celebrate freedom of speech and transparency, that's weird but fine i guess.
you may celebrate whatever you wish. i've no problem with that. but celebrating and actually having stuff are two totally different things. and you are as far from having any freedom of speech and information or actual democracy as everybody else.

i think the idea is that it's easier to achieve a nuanced truth or perspective if you have a pluralism, or multiple accounts.
really? how so? when nobody is accountable for anything they report, nobody is answerable to anybody but those, who pays their salary, what's the point?

that the political process runs better when it is held accountable by public discourse and institutions.
when every and all information manipulation tools are controlled by the same people who have politicians in their pockets, political process couldn't care less about public discourse and institutions.

no one is even celebrating...
we're talking...
and that's that. "talking", "celebrating".

that hardly exists in russia.
you've never been to russia, have you?

but apparently you prefer it because money stains everything in the west, and doesn't affect russia at all.
did i ever said it doesn't affect russia?

also this shit where you constantly call out the 'source' of every contrary or critical opinion got tired about 5 years ago.
not my problem.

you'll only be satisfied with a negative opinion of russia and it's authors when they come from one and the same source: putin's beautiful mouth. anyone else is obviously compromised.
ffs, what's that with you and putin, people? why do you keep bringing the fucker up? i, personally, hardly ever talk about the man, i never voted for him and i intensely dislike most of what he's doing to russia. i don't even remember ever posting anything like anything positive about him here, yet you keep bringing him up and accusing me of being involved in "putin-mania" and stuff. wtf?

twonk
"twonk" yourself.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4215|Moscow, Russia

SuperJail Warden wrote:

For the life of me I will never understand why the Russians are the way they are.
oh, it's simple: having been through so many social, political and cultural changes and experiments we have something here you never had - perspective.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+138|892
more obfuscatory bollocks from you, shahter. nobody said we have absolute free speech or perfect democracy.

let's break it down and keep it simple: you say the west has 'troubling information controls' that effectively rig elections and 'put candidates in the white house'.

i say that is bollocks. we have a much freer press and a more open, pluralistic media than you. there are more perspectives and it is far from being a monolithic state-media apparatus that 'appoints' and 'promotes' presidential candidates. on the contrary, that is the situation in russia. independent and critical sources are harangued and pressured. journalists are beat or murdered. your press freedom index is near the bottom of the table.

in the west, even our 'official' and 'proper' broadcasters, e.g. the BBC, frequently broadcast programs by the likes of john pilger or adam curtis. they are openly critical of the government, even accusing them of state terrorism or genocide. would this be allowed in russia? on your mainstream tv channels? somehow i doubt it. but you keep prattling on about 'information control' determining elections. keep drinking the kool aid.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4215|Moscow, Russia

uziq wrote:

we have a much freer press and a more open, pluralistic media than you.
how can you tell? you don't speak russian do you?

there are more perspectives and it is far from being a monolithic state-media apparatus that 'appoints' and 'promotes' presidential candidates.
how come that you consistently elect compete tools then?

on the contrary, that is the situation in russia.
how can you tell? you don't speak russian do you?

your press freedom index is near the bottom of the table.
stick that table where the sun doesn't shine already.

in the west, even our 'official' and 'proper' broadcasters, e.g. the BBC, frequently broadcast programs by the likes of john pilger or adam curtis. they are openly critical of the government, even accusing them of state terrorism or genocide.
somebody pays them to do that then. as i said, i'm okay with that, just don't tell me that shit is required for "democratic political process", okay? it's preposterous.

would this be allowed in russia? on your mainstream tv channels?
if the money was right? yes.

but you keep prattling on about 'information control' determining elections.
duh? that's the way it works in any capitalistic state, no way around it.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+138|892
oh yes i forgot i have to speak russian and live in petrograd for 15 years before i can pass judgement.

nevermind all the reports and analysis done on press freedom in russia by supra-national, charity organisations whose sole job is to compile journalistic expertise and support.

see you shahter. i won't miss you when bf2s goes the way of the USSR.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4156

uziq wrote:

nevermind all the reports and analysis done on press freedom in russia by supra-national, charity organisations whose sole job is to compile journalistic expertise and support.
western propaganda.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
CC-Marley
THE FLYING DRAGONS...THE ULTIMATE TERRORISTS
+406|4268|CapeCod, Ma.

Cybargs wrote:

uziq wrote:

nevermind all the reports and analysis done on press freedom in russia by supra-national, charity organisations whose sole job is to compile journalistic expertise and support.
western propaganda.
totally comrad
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4215|Moscow, Russia

uziq wrote:

oh yes i forgot i have to speak russian and live in petrograd for 15 years before i can pass judgement.
oh, you can pass whatever you wish. but for your "judgement" to be worth shit - yes, you have to have some idea about what you are talking about. that includes being able to examine the sources yourself.

nevermind all the reports and analysis done on press freedom in russia by supra-national, charity organisations whose sole job is to compile journalistic expertise and support.
uh-huh. all your info is second hand then. deal with it.

see you shahter. i won't miss you when bf2s goes the way of the USSR.
ooooh... you are breaking my commie heart, sweetie.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159
Anyway. These states have all gone to the same candidates in the last six election.
https://i.imgur.com/VVlo2BC.png
baring a war, economic collapse, or major terrorist attack, I don't see how democrats can lose. All they need is Florida and Colorado.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,591|3546|eXtreme to the maX
The retardation of the candidates seems to have hit a new low, this should be fun to watch.

I'm cheering for this guy.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/ee6fa02e8a989a184edd2327465ecd98/tumblr_ms3w3p0sI01rj6f00o2_400.gif
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159
Donald Trump is now running for president.
RTHKI
MOTOGPGPGPGPGPGPGP
+1,614|4177|THE X GAMES
its like they want hillary to win
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/6644/Xj4f2.png

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