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SuperJail Warden
Member
+166|1251
Who cares if Ukraine isn't in NATO? Does being an European mean you have to be in NATO? Europeans in and out of NATO called us paranoid. This wasn't only directed at NATO members.



Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons in '94 under the agreement that their sovereignty would be protected by the U.S., Russia, and U.K. Look what happened. Russia broke the agreement. How can we promise that countries who do not seek or give up their weapons are better off or safe without them? We can't now. Russia just set world peace back. Every single person in the world is less safer because of Putin.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons in '94 under the agreement that their sovereignty would be protected by the U.S., Russia, and U.K.
you are forgetting one little thing - nobody ratified that agreement.

How can we promise that countries who do not seek or give up their weapons are better off or safe without them? We can't now.
right. you can't. deal with it.

Russia just set world peace back.
russia did? yeah, right, it was russia who, after establishing themselves as "world police", have been invading sovereign nations and destroying uncooperative regimes around the wold with no regard for anybody else's opinions on the matters. what the fuck are you smoking there?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
BVC
Member
+323|4227

SuperJail Warden wrote:

All of Europe joined NATO to protect themselves from Russia aggression but you never did your part.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Who cares if Ukraine isn't in NATO? Does being an European mean you have to be in NATO? Europeans in and out of NATO called us paranoid. This wasn't only directed at NATO members.
In the context of your previous post, it matters a lot whether or not Ukraine is part of NATO.  It isn't, therefore it can't have joined NATO for protection.  If agreements worked the way you seem to think they do, I'd be held liable for my neighbours mortgage, and vice versa.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons in '94 under the agreement that their sovereignty would be protected by the U.S., Russia, and U.K. Look what happened. Russia broke the agreement. How can we promise that countries who do not seek or give up their weapons are better off or safe without them? We can't now. Russia just set world peace back. Every single person in the world is less safer because of Putin.
The agreement is essentially a non-aggression treaty.  All the US is required to do is sit down and talk about it.  Its also possible to argue that China broke the agreement too, by virtue of supporting Russia.  The trade sanctions which the EU, US and others have initiated against Russia actually go further than is required under the treaty.  They're also trying to seek a diplomatic solution, which also isn't required under the treaty.

Diplomacy.  That word might be tough to understand (it has four syllables), but if you try real hard you might just understand what it means.  Even though the Russian government is a bit arrogant and untrustyworthy, it might still work.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+166|1251
I can't wait until Putin dies so that your shitty cold hellhole sinks into geopolitical irrelevance. I hope that there are mass demonstrations and police shoot protesters in Moscow after another fraudulent election once your broken political system is attempted to be hijacked by your vulture politicians. I hope Moscow burns to the ground.

I am so goddamn sick of Russia. Nothing good has come from there since the end of the cold war. Your country should have cut back on your military and used its oil money to build infrastructure. But instead you guys want to live out the glory days back when everyone around you hated your guts for what you did to them. You want to go back to when your military was like a plague that raped its way across Eastern Russia in a way that made the Nazis look civilized. And what do you guys get for opposing the U.S. and trying to still be the #2 great power? You have a suicide rate that is among the highest outside of Asia, your men are such losers that Chinese men come there looking to give brides a better life, and you are all dying of alcoholism. Your Olympic games were supposed to be some great achievement where you showed the world how far you have come but instead you just showed everyone that your toilets can't process paper. You are 58th in PPP behind countries like Poland, Latvia, Croatia, Argentina, Chile and Hungary. And the last great Russian export is the AK-47. That is something to be proud of.

I hope you go all over the internet spreading the "HIDDEN TRUTH" and "WESTERN SECRETS" about the U.S. and Russia. God luck doing it for long since eventually your government is going to shut down your internet from any dissenting opinions. You people don't believe in human rights. You say proudly "there are no rights!". Of course rights don't exist. You slavs never had anything close to the rights enjoyed by not only people in the west but in much of the developing world. People in India are more free than you. You know where we get the word slave from? Slav because that is what the Russian people are. They are slaves to an oppressive system that treats them as a commodity used to piss off the people living in the cleaner, freer, safer, happier, wealthier, Western countries.

Now go on and tell me how unfree and horrible life is here. I look forward to reading whatever you can type on your shitty knockoff probably unsafe and killing you Russian computer.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia
that's a nice set of anti-russia propaganda bullshit you assembled there. gj, i really enjoyed reading that.

oh, and feel free to answer my previous post when you have an actual point.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+166|1251

BVC wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

All of Europe joined NATO to protect themselves from Russia aggression but you never did your part.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Who cares if Ukraine isn't in NATO? Does being an European mean you have to be in NATO? Europeans in and out of NATO called us paranoid. This wasn't only directed at NATO members.
In the context of your previous post, it matters a lot whether or not Ukraine is part of NATO.  It isn't, therefore it can't have joined NATO for protection.  If agreements worked the way you seem to think they do, I'd be held liable for my neighbours mortgage, and vice versa.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons in '94 under the agreement that their sovereignty would be protected by the U.S., Russia, and U.K. Look what happened. Russia broke the agreement. How can we promise that countries who do not seek or give up their weapons are better off or safe without them? We can't now. Russia just set world peace back. Every single person in the world is less safer because of Putin.
The agreement is essentially a non-aggression treaty.  All the US is required to do is sit down and talk about it.  Its also possible to argue that China broke the agreement too, by virtue of supporting Russia.  The trade sanctions which the EU, US and others have initiated against Russia actually go further than is required under the treaty.  They're also trying to seek a diplomatic solution, which also isn't required under the treaty.

Diplomacy.  That word might be tough to understand (it has four syllables), but if you try real hard you might just understand what it means.  Even though the Russian government is a bit arrogant and untrustyworthy, it might still work.
Aren't you the Australian asshole who had the "too smart to be a conservative" sig? Didn't you become a cop? Don't talk down to me about foreign policy. I will bet my dick I am much more educated on this subject than you are and probably ever will be.



UKRAINE HAS ASKED US FOR SUPPORT. Whether they are NATO or not, we can intervene. How hard is that for you to understand? I explained it twice. Don't try to be cute by playing quote games to make a point that isn't relevant. "All of Europe" is obviously rhetorical. I mentioned NATO twice in my OP and Europe 8 times. The OP wasn't directed at only NATO. In the title it says Europe.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia
ukraine had a coup d'état and has no legitimate government to ask for support atm.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4247

Shahter wrote:

ukraine had a coup d'état and has no legitimate government to ask for support atm.
lol. yeah and russia had a coup as well when the communists take over. does that mean it's not a legitimate gov?

Yeah an ousted president who tried to flee is totally legit right.

lol shahter harping on about propaganda that's rich.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia

Cybargs wrote:

Shahter wrote:

ukraine had a coup d'état and has no legitimate government to ask for support atm.
lol. yeah and russia had a coup as well when the communists take over. does that mean it's not a legitimate gov?
no, it shouldn't have been considered legitimate at the time of the coup (and if you took any time to study history, you'd know that it wasn't). those who forcibly took power and call themselves ukranian government atm and "ask for help" shouldn't be either.

Yeah an ousted president who tried to flee is totally legit right.
ukrainian constitution has all the required impeachment procedures defined which must be followed to remove a president from power. those have not been followed - thus, president yanukovich is still totally legit.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4247

Shahter wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Shahter wrote:

ukraine had a coup d'état and has no legitimate government to ask for support atm.
lol. yeah and russia had a coup as well when the communists take over. does that mean it's not a legitimate gov?
no, it shouldn't have been considered legitimate at the time of the coup (and if you took any time to study history, you'd know that it wasn't). those who forcibly took power and call themselves ukranian government atm and "ask for help" shouldn't be either.

Yeah an ousted president who tried to flee is totally legit right.
ukrainian constitution has all the required impeachment procedures defined which must be followed to remove a president from power. those have not been followed - thus, president yanukovich is still totally legit.
yeah like you russians give a shit about rule of law. I love the reasoning of sending troops over. "oh its to stop neonazis and protect russian citizens!" yeah bullshit.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia

Cybargs wrote:

yeah like you russians give a shit about rule of law.
can't speak for all the russians, but i do. and, as it happens, the law is quite clear on the matter of legitimacy of that "government" in ukraine which supposedly asked for help.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,592|3637|eXtreme to the maX
And Putin's legitimacy? Or Assad's?
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4247

Shahter wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

yeah like you russians give a shit about rule of law.
can't speak for all the russians, but i do. and, as it happens, the law is quite clear on the matter of legitimacy of that "government" in ukraine which supposedly asked for help.
and what about the legitimacy of invading a sovereign state? sure there is change of the government of ukraine, but you can't invade a country just because a leader you like got ousted by the people.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia

Dilbert_X wrote:

And Putin's legitimacy? Or Assad's?
both totally legitimate and recognized by everybody around the world, if you must know. as were gaddafi, mubarak, saddam hussein and the likes, btw.

i think i already posted the following, but i'll repeat for you:

remember when the world was fighting against hitler and the nazies, whom pretty much everybody considered pure evil to be destroyed? first a formal war was declared. then, when the war was won a series trials was held to examine the evidence and determine who was to blame, severety of the guilt, and not everybody was hanged in the end. remember all that? that was how we treated those, who cost the world something like 53 000 000 (fifty three million) lives.

and now look at what was the "enlightened west" doing around the world ever since the was no soviet union to balance the power. "they don't agree with us? ha! they are illegitimate - bomb the fuckers!"

and now the same people, who have been behaving like that, and all the "enlightened westerners" here, who have been supporting their gevernments' involvement in "arab springs" and the likes, accuse russia of meddling and being aggressive towards sovereign nations in south ossetia and ukraine? what, really? it was you who opened the pandora's box, now you are not happy with what keeps coming out of it? um... okay.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,959|2889|London, England
Why are you all arguing with a neo-con? The fundamental belief he and his ilk hold is that they are smarter, stronger, and know what's best for you and the world. You can't reason with that, just ignore it and hope it doesn't win many elections.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,592|3637|eXtreme to the maX

Shahter wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

And Putin's legitimacy? Or Assad's?
both totally legitimate and recognized by everybody around the world, if you must know. as were gaddafi, mubarak, saddam hussein and the likes, btw.
lolwat
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4247
russia strong

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia
that's... nice. would listen again.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4247
what do the lyrics mean
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia
"new year, new year, what a nice holiday" and all that jazz.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4247
https://i.imgur.com/0CjVCM6.png
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|4264|Cambridge, England
Why have the Russians removed identifiers from their uniforms?

If they think they are in the right then there would be no need. What is the benefit?

Also response from Ukraine RE Russia's statements.

http://moscow.usembassy.gov/settingrecordstraight.html

extract:

Claim:  We need to return to the February 21 agreement, which the opposition failed to implement.
Response:  As part of the agreement, the Ukrainian Parliament (the Rada) passed a bill to return Ukraine to the 2004 Constitution. Under the terms of the agreement, Yanukovych had 24 hours to sign this legislation, after which the protesters would need to evacuate certain government buildings and take other de-escalatory steps.  Instead of signing the legislation, Yanukovych left Kyiv and ultimately Ukraine.  Yanukovych is the one who failed to implement the February 21 agreement. Yanukovych’s party has moved on, voting in favor of legislation removing him from office and establishing a new government.
-          Ambassador Power:  “It was Yanukovych who failed to abide by the terms of that agreement, fleeing Kyiv, and ultimately Ukraine.”

Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2014-03-05 06:46:03)

Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Why have the Russians removed identifiers from their uniforms?

If they think they are in the right then there would be no need. What is the benefit?
no idea what this spectacle is for.

Also response from Ukraine RE Russia's statements.

http://moscow.usembassy.gov/settingrecordstraight.html

extract:

Claim:  We need to return to the February 21 agreement, which the opposition failed to implement.
Response:  As part of the agreement, the Ukrainian Parliament (the Rada) passed a bill to return Ukraine to the 2004 Constitution. Under the terms of the agreement, Yanukovych had 24 hours to sign this legislation, after which the protesters would need to evacuate certain government buildings and take other de-escalatory steps.  Instead of signing the legislation, Yanukovych left Kyiv and ultimately Ukraine.  Yanukovych is the one who failed to implement the February 21 agreement. Yanukovych’s party has moved on, voting in favor of legislation removing him from office and establishing a new government.
-          Ambassador Power:  “It was Yanukovych who failed to abide by the terms of that agreement, fleeing Kyiv, and ultimately Ukraine.”
so, if they thought yanukovich behavior was reason enough to remove him from office, why didn't they follow formal impeachment procedures? what would have been the best way to secure their own legitimacy if not to have done it all by the book?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4247
BBC comment section is bizzare right now.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26444747

so many pro-russian posters. seems like putin is paying some kids to write stuff on internats.

shahter: yanukovich fled kiev and ukraine. he didn't sign any legislation, he practically abandoned his responsibility. Besides, the parliament and prime minister still has power when the president fails to act, how does that not make their government legitimate?
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4306|Moscow, Russia

Shahter wrote:

ukrainian constitution has all the required impeachment procedures defined which must be followed to remove a president from power. those have not been followed - thus, president yanukovich is still totally legit.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

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