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SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159
For years Americans on this forum have been yelled at by Europeans for our aggressive foreign policy and "bloated" military budgets. We were told the age of national armies and wars were behind us. We were told we were destabilizing the world and making it harder for Westerners. Well, the Russians are about to annex Crimea like Hitler did Poland and suddenly all the Europeans are screaming for us to do something.

Europeans complained for years that we were spending too much money on our military. They told us we didn't have to be the police of the world. The Nordic assholes on here especially. You people all told us that you didn't need our protection and that we were paranoid. You said that Russia would never start a war in Europe. Well, where are you today?

All of Europe joined NATO to protect themselves from Russia aggression but you never did your part. You spent all your money on social welfare programs and neglected your defense spending. You thought it was cute when you couldn't destroy Libyan tanks or had enough missiles to bombard Syria. You laughed when we said you wouldn't be prepared for an attack by a reforming Russia. You said it would never come. Well, here it is.

Ukrainians rioted and moaned when their government was in negations to join NATO. Black bloc protesters fought with the police when we offered to extend our protection to their country. Where are the black bloc protesters now? Dead. Shot down by their Russia supporting former leaders.

So tell me what you want us to do now? I would find it delightful to watch the Europeans struggle to repel Russian military from Ukraine. But my sympathy for the Ukrainian people and their desire to sit at the table of western states prevents me from sitting on the sidelines.

From this day forward, Europeans lose any right they have to complain about U.S. foreign policy. The only Europeans I would consider listening to about foreign affairs are the British and French. The only two countries who were wise enough not to completely forget the long history of warfare and death that has spawned from that continent.

So I ask you, what would you like us to do Europe?
Steve-0
Karma limited. Contact Admin to Be Promoted.
+203|1400|SL,UT

i say, let's get out of trashcanistan, let europe deal with the crimea, china deal with taiwan, and the germans have our bases back.

we don't have to be the world police, fuck foreign aid, and let's take care of our country first.

edit; if you americans are pro foreign aid, please post if you pay taxes also. i've noticed the freeloaders on this forum are very liberal with my money.

Last edited by Steve-0 (2014-03-01 20:38:39)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,591|3546|eXtreme to the maX
Obama isn't going to doing anything, Crimea should be part of Russia, nothing to see here.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,959|2798|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

For years Americans on this forum have been yelled at by Europeans for our aggressive foreign policy and "bloated" military budgets. We were told the age of national armies and wars were behind us. We were told we were destabilizing the world and making it harder for Westerners. Well, the Russians are about to annex Crimea like Hitler did Poland and suddenly all the Europeans are screaming for us to do something.

Europeans complained for years that we were spending too much money on our military. They told us we didn't have to be the police of the world. The Nordic assholes on here especially. You people all told us that you didn't need our protection and that we were paranoid. You said that Russia would never start a war in Europe. Well, where are you today?

All of Europe joined NATO to protect themselves from Russia aggression but you never did your part. You spent all your money on social welfare programs and neglected your defense spending. You thought it was cute when you couldn't destroy Libyan tanks or had enough missiles to bombard Syria. You laughed when we said you wouldn't be prepared for an attack by a reforming Russia. You said it would never come. Well, here it is.

Ukrainians rioted and moaned when their government was in negations to join NATO. Black bloc protesters fought with the police when we offered to extend our protection to their country. Where are the black bloc protesters now? Dead. Shot down by their Russia supporting former leaders.

So tell me what you want us to do now? I would find it delightful to watch the Europeans struggle to repel Russian military from Ukraine. But my sympathy for the Ukrainian people and their desire to sit at the table of western states prevents me from sitting on the sidelines.

From this day forward, Europeans lose any right they have to complain about U.S. foreign policy. The only Europeans I would consider listening to about foreign affairs are the British and French. The only two countries who were wise enough not to completely forget the long history of warfare and death that has spawned from that continent.

So I ask you, what would you like us to do Europe?
Thanks Bill O'Reilly.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,591|3546|eXtreme to the maX
I found myself agreeing with Bill O'Reilly today, what was weirder was he was agreeing with Obama.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|4172|Cambridge, England
Nobody is begging for USA aid.

USA will get their nose stuck in because you always do, especially if there is a chance the evil Russians are involved.

USA does not want a war with Russia, nobody does.

Would be very interested to know China's role in this, they are getting to the point where a few proxy wars would be good to test our their newly developed tech. From what I know it is mostly Russian derived so there must be a relationship there..Dont think China will want be seen as an aggressor yet but would be very surprised if they are ignoring the conflict.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|4021|SE London

You don't need troops for economic sanctions - which are what would make the most sense here.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Nobody is begging for USA aid.

USA will get their nose stuck in because you always do, especially if there is a chance the evil Russians are involved.

USA does not want a war with Russia, nobody does.

Would be very interested to know China's role in this, they are getting to the point where a few proxy wars would be good to test our their newly developed tech. From what I know it is mostly Russian derived so there must be a relationship there..Dont think China will want be seen as an aggressor yet but would be very surprised if they are ignoring the conflict.
Ukraine has totally asked for U.S. aid.
Ukraine has asked Nato to look at all possible ways to help it protect its territorial integrity, foreign minister Sergei Deshchiritsya said today.

The minister said he had held talks with officials from the United States and the European Union and then asked Nato for help after what Ukraine’s prime minister described as Russian aggression.

A request had been made to Nato to “look at using all possibilities for protecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, the Ukrainian people and nuclear facilities on Ukrainian territory,” he said.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us … -1.1709723


Guess who makes up the overwhelming majority of NATO forces? Guess who also spends the most money and has the most experienced soldiers?
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|4021|SE London

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Nobody is begging for USA aid.

USA will get their nose stuck in because you always do, especially if there is a chance the evil Russians are involved.

USA does not want a war with Russia, nobody does.

Would be very interested to know China's role in this, they are getting to the point where a few proxy wars would be good to test our their newly developed tech. From what I know it is mostly Russian derived so there must be a relationship there..Dont think China will want be seen as an aggressor yet but would be very surprised if they are ignoring the conflict.
Ukraine has totally asked for U.S. aid.
Ukraine has asked Nato to look at all possible ways to help it protect its territorial integrity, foreign minister Sergei Deshchiritsya said today.

The minister said he had held talks with officials from the United States and the European Union and then asked Nato for help after what Ukraine’s prime minister described as Russian aggression.

A request had been made to Nato to “look at using all possibilities for protecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, the Ukrainian people and nuclear facilities on Ukrainian territory,” he said.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us … -1.1709723


Guess who makes up the overwhelming majority of NATO forces? Guess who also spends the most money and has the most experienced soldiers?
Guess who is the only nation to have invoked article 5 of the treaty (the bit asking for immediate aid from other members following an attack)?
SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159

Bertster7 wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Nobody is begging for USA aid.

USA will get their nose stuck in because you always do, especially if there is a chance the evil Russians are involved.

USA does not want a war with Russia, nobody does.

Would be very interested to know China's role in this, they are getting to the point where a few proxy wars would be good to test our their newly developed tech. From what I know it is mostly Russian derived so there must be a relationship there..Dont think China will want be seen as an aggressor yet but would be very surprised if they are ignoring the conflict.
Ukraine has totally asked for U.S. aid.
Ukraine has asked Nato to look at all possible ways to help it protect its territorial integrity, foreign minister Sergei Deshchiritsya said today.

The minister said he had held talks with officials from the United States and the European Union and then asked Nato for help after what Ukraine’s prime minister described as Russian aggression.

A request had been made to Nato to “look at using all possibilities for protecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, the Ukrainian people and nuclear facilities on Ukrainian territory,” he said.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us … -1.1709723


Guess who makes up the overwhelming majority of NATO forces? Guess who also spends the most money and has the most experienced soldiers?
Guess who is the only nation to have invoked article 5 of the treaty (the bit asking for immediate aid from other members following an attack)?
And how does that refute the fact that we make up most of NATO and Ukraine has asked us for support?
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+280|4215|Moscow, Russia

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Ukraine has totally asked for U.S. aid.
orly? ukraine has no legitimate government atm. who exactly relayed their "plea for help"?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4156

Shahter wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Ukraine has totally asked for U.S. aid.
orly? ukraine has no legitimate government atm. who exactly relayed their "plea for help"?
yeah because an ousted president who fled the country is totally legitimate.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Adams_BJ
Warman is a hermaphrodite.
+2,022|4062|Little Bentcock
Trollthread/10
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|4172|Cambridge, England
Nato =/= USA

If USA is so amazing and pretty much does everything then why even have NATO? Why enter into all of those negotiations and agreements if USA gets absolutely no benefit from it at all?

USA are only getting involved to look after their own interests. Who will benefit from a Russia v USA punchup in Ukraine?

Hint, its not going to be the locals.

USA couldnt afford a fight with Syria, they aren't going to pick one with Russia. I Dare say Russia is aware of this.
Steve-0
Karma limited. Contact Admin to Be Promoted.
+203|1400|SL,UT

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Nato =/= USA

If USA is so amazing and pretty much does everything then why even have NATO? Why enter into all of those negotiations and agreements if USA gets absolutely no benefit from it at all?

USA are only getting involved to look after their own interests. Who will benefit from a Russia v USA punchup in Ukraine?

Hint, its not going to be the locals.

USA couldnt afford a fight with Syria, they aren't going to pick one with Russia. I Dare say Russia is aware of this.
How would Russia benefit from a military engagement with U.S.? I Dare say We are aware of this.
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|2618|Sydney

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Nobody is begging for USA aid.

USA will get their nose stuck in because you always do, especially if there is a chance the evil Russians are involved.

USA does not want a war with Russia, nobody does.

Would be very interested to know China's role in this, they are getting to the point where a few proxy wars would be good to test our their newly developed tech. From what I know it is mostly Russian derived so there must be a relationship there..Dont think China will want be seen as an aggressor yet but would be very surprised if they are ignoring the conflict.
China has historically never gotten as involved as other nations. If they did they would've had a bigger empire than the Brits ever had (and I mean outside their own country).

Last edited by Jaekus (2014-03-04 08:40:09)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Nato =/= USA

If USA is so amazing and pretty much does everything then why even have NATO? Why enter into all of those negotiations and agreements if USA gets absolutely no benefit from it at all?

USA are only getting involved to look after their own interests. Who will benefit from a Russia v USA punchup in Ukraine?

Hint, its not going to be the locals.

USA couldnt afford a fight with Syria, they aren't going to pick one with Russia. I Dare say Russia is aware of this.
I will repeat myself. The U.S. makes up the overwhelming majority of NATO forces. We are the ones with the most money and infrastructure. When you ask NATO for help you are explicitly asking for U.S. support. NATO was formed as a response to the USSR. It made sense for everyone involved in it at the time and now.

Ukraine is different from Syria. It is more important and we are in the moral right.

Oh and I agree the West intervening in Ukraine will only help us. The country is not asking for our help or have just had a revolution in order to move into our sphere and out of Russia's /s
SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159

Jaekus wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Nobody is begging for USA aid.

USA will get their nose stuck in because you always do, especially if there is a chance the evil Russians are involved.

USA does not want a war with Russia, nobody does.

Would be very interested to know China's role in this, they are getting to the point where a few proxy wars would be good to test our their newly developed tech. From what I know it is mostly Russian derived so there must be a relationship there..Dont think China will want be seen as an aggressor yet but would be very surprised if they are ignoring the conflict.
China has historically never gotten as involved as other nations. If they did they would've had a bigger empire than the Brits ever had (and I mean outside their own country).
This is patently untrue. I swear this myth was formulated as Chinese propaganda. China is anything but a peaceful nation.

China has a history of invading Vietnam. Most recently was a full scale invasion in 1979.

China invaded and took territory off of India in the 1960s.

China had fighting with the Soviet Union and offered to go to full nuclear war with them.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Sov … r_conflict

They invaded and still occupy Tibet. They are committing cultural genocide there. In Northwestern China they are committing cultural genocide against Turkic Muslims.

The China you see on a map is not their natural borders. They are an inflated empire.
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|2618|Sydney
I never said they didn't get involved, I said not as involved. Britain was off making countries on the other side of the planet part of their empire (ie. Australia, India, etc). China has ventured much farther than their own borders (they visited Australia and Africa before caucasian people) but have never tried to settle those places, other than those near to their homeland.
Karbin
Member
+42|3734
Lets not forget that China is backing Russia's play in the Ukraine.
Possible pay-back would be China's play for the Senkaku Islands.
Or, God forbid, China going after it's "In rebellion province of
Taiwan"
It will be interesting to see IF Russia just grabs some of the mainland
area that is "Ethnic Russian". It's starting to look a lot like Sudetenland
all over again.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+163|1159
China won't do anything.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|4156

Jaekus wrote:

I never said they didn't get involved, I said not as involved. Britain was off making countries on the other side of the planet part of their empire (ie. Australia, India, etc). China has ventured much farther than their own borders (they visited Australia and Africa before caucasian people) but have never tried to settle those places, other than those near to their homeland.
I wouldn't exactly call China enlightened or civilized for taking that stance. It's just they think everything outside of china is a barbaric shithole that's not even worthy for the middle kingdom to touch. All they care about is their neighbours giving tributes. China never settled because for them, there's no point in investing in "shitholes" To them, why leave the heaven that is the middle kingdom to peddle around in a wasteland? China could've expanded outwards but all that ended when the Ming Dynasty decided to end Zhong He's voyages.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
globefish23
sophisticated slacker
+334|3764|Graz, Austria
The Ukrainian opposition has done a stupid move  by forming the new government with several neo-nazi/fascist parties, while excluding the Russian-speaking parties from the East and South.
All against the deal they signed with several EU foreign ministers and Yanukovych himself.

That'll play into Putin's hands and make a potential secession of the eastern and southern regions (with a Russian-speaking population of up to 60%) much easier.

I think that the current build-up of Russian troops on the Crimea is mainly a backup plan to save Russia's only Black Sea/Mediterranean access.
They have made contracts with Ukraine under Yanukovych to have exclusive access to their seaports and airfields there.
But that is something that could easily change, especially since the new government was formed with parties from the Western regions only, is EU focused and intends to join NATO.

I dare to say that ANY Russian government would make that move.
Just like the USA under Obama would protect Guantamo Bay, should the Cubans try to invade, or any of their foreign military bases.


Also, I feel that the Olympic games in Sochi might have boosted Putin's ego a bit.
BVC
Member
+323|4135

SuperJail Warden wrote:

For years Americans on this forum have been yelled at by Europeans for our aggressive foreign policy and "bloated" military budgets. We were told the age of national armies and wars were behind us. We were told we were destabilizing the world and making it harder for Westerners. Well, the Russians are about to annex Crimea like Hitler did Poland and suddenly all the Europeans are screaming for us to do something.
Poland in 1939 is nothing like Crimea in 2014.  For starters, theres no blitzkrieg.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Europeans complained for years that we were spending too much money on our military. They told us we didn't have to be the police of the world. The Nordic assholes on here especially. You people all told us that you didn't need our protection and that we were paranoid. You said that Russia would never start a war in Europe. Well, where are you today?
Russia hasn't inaveded/threatened to invade a NATO country.  Ukraine isn't in NATO or the EU.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

All of Europe joined NATO to protect themselves from Russia aggression but you never did your part. You spent all your money on social welfare programs and neglected your defense spending. You thought it was cute when you couldn't destroy Libyan tanks or had enough missiles to bombard Syria. You laughed when we said you wouldn't be prepared for an attack by a reforming Russia. You said it would never come. Well, here it is.
Again, Ukraine isn't in NATO or the EU.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Ukrainians rioted and moaned when their government was in negations to join NATO. Black bloc protesters fought with the police when we offered to extend our protection to their country. Where are the black bloc protesters now? Dead. Shot down by their Russia supporting former leaders.
How do you know these protestors you're talking about are the same ones which were shot recently?  Wearing the same coloured shirt isn't enough of an association.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

So tell me what you want us to do now? I would find it delightful to watch the Europeans struggle to repel Russian military from Ukraine. But my sympathy for the Ukrainian people and their desire to sit at the table of western states prevents me from sitting on the sidelines.
Europe is trying the diplomatic route first, because it can achieve results, and doesn't tend to result in thousands of crying mothers.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

From this day forward, Europeans lose any right they have to complain about U.S. foreign policy. The only Europeans I would consider listening to about foreign affairs are the British and French. The only two countries who were wise enough not to completely forget the long history of warfare and death that has spawned from that continent.
I don't understand what you're getting at.  Europe did send troops to support you in Iraq and Afghanistan.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

So I ask you, what would you like us to do Europe?
Not from Europe, can't answer this one.  Though I don't think Europe has really asked for the US to do much except consult regarding the crisis, as the US is required to do under the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances.

For anyone who wants a TL;DR version of the OP, here you are:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

MMMMUUURICA!!!!! *drinks crude oil while firing M16 and saluting the flag* RUSKIES CALLED U NAMES INVADE THOSE DAMNED COMMIES!!!! EURO = GIRLY FAGS
Chou
D3
+736|4231|Red Light District

globefish23 wrote:

I think that the current build-up of Russian troops on the Crimea is mainly a backup plan to save Russia's only Black Sea/Mediterranean access.
They have made contracts with Ukraine under Yanukovych to have exclusive access to their seaports and airfields there.
But that is something that could easily change, especially since the new government was formed with parties from the Western regions only, is EU focused and intends to join NATO.

I dare to say that ANY Russian government would make that move.
Just like the USA under Obama would protect Guantamo Bay, should the Cubans try to invade, or any of their foreign military bases.
Pretty much.
The EU is nothing but a glorified gay parade trying to be the new nazis.
Fuck the world police.

Go Russia!

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