unnamednewbie13
That's no place to put a mug.
+1,739|4187|Tipping, China

And Nixon.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|3826|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

If I had to pick a faith to follow it would probably be Quakerism. No priests/ministers/church hierarchy of any sort. Each person is their own link to the deity. And you get to wear cool hats.
That is different from most (all?) Protestant sects how exactly?
In every other Protestant denomination you have a church leader of some sort (preacher, reverend, etc).
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Macbeth
Banned
+2,389|3001

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

If I had to pick a faith to follow it would probably be Quakerism. No priests/ministers/church hierarchy of any sort. Each person is their own link to the deity. And you get to wear cool hats.
That is different from most (all?) Protestant sects how exactly?
In every other Protestant denomination you have a church leader of some sort (preacher, reverend, etc).
Isn't that just someone who leads a prayers/recites or guides the congregation as opposed to the Catholic churches which have the church hierarchy as a definite part of the belief structure? I could have sworn Protestants make a big deal out of personal faith removed from churches...
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|3826|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:


That is different from most (all?) Protestant sects how exactly?
In every other Protestant denomination you have a church leader of some sort (preacher, reverend, etc).
Isn't that just someone who leads a prayers/recites or guides the congregation as opposed to the Catholic churches which have the church hierarchy as a definite part of the belief structure? I could have sworn Protestants make a big deal out of personal faith removed from churches...
There is a Church (notice the capital C) hierarchy in some Protestant denominations (ie, Mormonism, Presbyterianism, etc), whereas there is a church (lowercase) hierarchy in nearly all of them...except Quakerism. There, it's really a free-for-all.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,759|3568|what

Is it true that Mormons have magical underwear?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|3826|'Murka

AussieReaper wrote:

Is it true that Mormons have magical underwear?
They think so. But not all of them. Only the special ones get to wear the magical underwear.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Macbeth
Banned
+2,389|3001

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

In every other Protestant denomination you have a church leader of some sort (preacher, reverend, etc).
Isn't that just someone who leads a prayers/recites or guides the congregation as opposed to the Catholic churches which have the church hierarchy as a definite part of the belief structure? I could have sworn Protestants make a big deal out of personal faith removed from churches...
There is a Church (notice the capital C) hierarchy in some Protestant denominations (ie, Mormonism, Presbyterianism, etc), whereas there is a church (lowercase) hierarchy in nearly all of them...except Quakerism. There, it's really a free-for-all.
I'm talking about from a theological stand point. I hear about churches leaving coalitions all the time over whatever issue. I figured it's just a money/resource thing. You can be part of this coalition of churches and tap into the resources as long you believe in XYZ like the other members.

I'm interested in the actual role of the pastors in the the faith itself. Again from a theological standpoint. Not in actual practice. From a theological standpoint isn't the persons faith alone enough? Isn't the whole "the Kingdom of God is within you" thing that is held in such high regard to protestants totally negate the point of pastors and buildings and all of that other garbage?
Macbeth
Banned
+2,389|3001

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Almost done with a book about Islam. I mentioned it in the book club thread. Some interesting theology they have (muslims). I am not going to convert and still hate it, as I do all religions, but it's pretty cool to learn about it. I still have to do a bit if research about Judaism. My knowledge of that is pretty light.
i like the lineage in the academic side of Islam.  You have differing factions using legitimate scripture/accepted trains of thought regarding certain subjects like the length of a man's beard.  It's a pretty stark contrast to the stubbornness of many Christian sects.
That was one of two things that impressed (? not really a good word, surprised maybe) me about Islam. Along with that was the focus on community and it's interest. I already knew from other places how Aristotle and other Greek philosophers were co-opted by early Muslim philosophers and how it was supprssed. I didn't know however that the using Greek philosophy to prove Islamic theology was the thing at the time. From the other sources it made it seem like only a brief fringe thing as compared to the reality of it being very much in vogue.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,772|4047|949

Yeah, community aspect is huge. Look at Ramadan- the familial feasting before dawn and after sunset speaks a lot.

I think that's one reason the west (especially the US) and historically islamic cultures encounter friction.
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|3165|شمال
what book is that bethie?
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|3826|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:


Isn't that just someone who leads a prayers/recites or guides the congregation as opposed to the Catholic churches which have the church hierarchy as a definite part of the belief structure? I could have sworn Protestants make a big deal out of personal faith removed from churches...
There is a Church (notice the capital C) hierarchy in some Protestant denominations (ie, Mormonism, Presbyterianism, etc), whereas there is a church (lowercase) hierarchy in nearly all of them...except Quakerism. There, it's really a free-for-all.
I'm talking about from a theological stand point. I hear about churches leaving coalitions all the time over whatever issue. I figured it's just a money/resource thing. You can be part of this coalition of churches and tap into the resources as long you believe in XYZ like the other members.

I'm interested in the actual role of the pastors in the the faith itself. Again from a theological standpoint. Not in actual practice. From a theological standpoint isn't the persons faith alone enough? Isn't the whole "the Kingdom of God is within you" thing that is held in such high regard to protestants totally negate the point of pastors and buildings and all of that other garbage?
The key difference between Protestanism and Catholicism is that there is no interlocutor between you and God (a la the priest). Even within Catholicism, that notion has fallen out of vogue, but vestiges of the practice remain (confession et al). But you can't de-link the theological and the political, since you're dealing with a human organization. Hence, why I am not a fan of organized religion--the latter often overrides the former.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,959|2773|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:


In every other Protestant denomination you have a church leader of some sort (preacher, reverend, etc).
Isn't that just someone who leads a prayers/recites or guides the congregation as opposed to the Catholic churches which have the church hierarchy as a definite part of the belief structure? I could have sworn Protestants make a big deal out of personal faith removed from churches...
There is a Church (notice the capital C) hierarchy in some Protestant denominations (ie, Mormonism, Presbyterianism, etc), whereas there is a church (lowercase) hierarchy in nearly all of them...except Quakerism. There, it's really a free-for-all.
Yep, they don't even believe in baptism. It really is the most democratic religion I've ever encountered.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
hocSiciliano
Member
+6|1968|New York

Lipschitz wrote:

^I'm the same way.  My parents made me do the "church thing" when I was younger and gave me parole for time served after I was confirmed.  It gave me a good foundation but I don't need to set foot in a church every Sunday to be spiritual or to be reminded how to treat my fellow man in my daily life.
The point of church each Sunday is not so much to be reminded of how to treat your fellow man in your daily life but more so for the fellowship with those with like thoughts and views, for guidance and nurturing/growth in your faith, etc.

There is nothing special about a "church." You can have a church in your room if you really want, its a matter of that deity being present in your worship/fellowship with them.

Does that make sense?
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|4105|Tampa Bay Florida

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

If I had to pick a faith to follow it would probably be Quakerism. No priests/ministers/church hierarchy of any sort. Each person is their own link to the deity. And you get to wear cool hats.
That is different from most (all?) Protestant sects how exactly?
Ever been to a quaker meeting?

It is entirely democratic, it is more of a discussion.  No one really "listens" to anybody else.

Only "religious" meeting I've ever been to, except boart mitzvahs or whatchamecallums

Last edited by Spearhead (2011-12-07 17:52:43)

Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|3885
i went to a meeting this one time in the woods where we drew a weird shape on this big flat rock and took our clothes off and rubbed each other's funny parts with moss and ivy and that was alright i guess i suppose i felt connected and weirdly tingly. my one encounter with the divine being, maybe.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,590|3521|eXtreme to the max

Uzique wrote:

i went to a meeting this one time in the woods where we drew a weird shape on this big flat rock and took our clothes off and rubbed each other's funny parts with moss and ivy and that was alright i guess i suppose i felt connected and weirdly tingly. my one encounter with the divine being, maybe.
Forest of Dean amirite?
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|3885
haha, that's actually pretty funny. i'm not sure that sorta stuff happens around there but wouldn't surprise me. the country's oldest ancient woodland and all that. i'm sure pagans and wiccans and tree-huggers and earth lovers can't get enough of the place. my religious youth in that area was pretty high anglican. the shires straddle a fine feudal edge between posh gentry and yokels.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|3983|Mountains of NC

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
Adams_BJ
Warman is a hermaphrodite.
+2,022|4038|Little Bentcock

HITNRUNXX wrote:

Uzique wrote:

yeah i troll about god because i'm an insecure christian.

lmfao it's not homosexuality. reverse psychology doesn't quite apply to religious belief.
Reverse psychology has nothing to do with it. I know tons of people who are so insecure in their belief that that can't even hear any other religions exist without yelling and screaming and being pissed off because it puts little doubts in their mind. These are also usually the ones that claim they believe XYZ "because my preacher told me so" but have no actual faith on their own.

Otherwise, trolling and individual attacks are totally uncalled for. If you want to have a calm rational sharing of ideas with the total understanding that everyone may walk away disagreeing with you, but you are still fine with that, then that is cool.

If all you have is trash talking and trying to piss people off, and only YOU are ever right because what you believe is superior, therefore anyone who doesn't believe as you is inferior, then you have issues within your own belief system.

Off-off topic example: I had a friend who LOVED the movie Seven. She told me it was the most wonderful thing ever and made me watch it. I don't like that type of movie so I avoided it prior to this. Finally, I watched it with her. I didn't like it. She got pissed off and threw a temper tantrum, going as far as to call me names because I was apparently too stupid to get the movie. I didn't really care. Her berating me did not affect my opinion of the movie. I didn't feel forced to start believing it was awesome, just because she said so. I also didn't feel the need to berate her back for having a different opinion from me, although I could have had the exact same approach to it as her. Instead, I still don't like it, and she can like whatever she wants, it doesn't affect me.

I find most religious zealots (including ANTI-religion zealots) to be the same way.

I don't feel that way. I believe God made us with free will. That is to be respected. Our country (I realize not everyone here is from the USA) was founded on religious freedoms. That is to be respected. If you believe what I do, I respect you. If you don't, I respect you. I have never checked anyone's religious resume before considering them a friend. I believe what I believe. I am comfortable in what I believe. Respect me or don't, that is up to you, but either way, you are just some dude on the internet, and it doesn't really impact me, and I hope you have a happy and wonderful life, no matter what you believe.

This is something I have to work on in myself, to better be who and what I want to be.

And I know I quoted Uzique, but that was the chain of conversation, this isn't directed at him, it is just me sharing the way I feel.

/topic derailing.
I have an issue with this. I was always told that God knew everything, past present future, he just knew all.

How can he create us with free will, knowing what we were going to do before we were even born, and then if we do wrong, punish us? What are the religious people's view on this? Does he not know all? Is he not an all power-full, all-knowing omnipotent being?
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|3826|'Murka

Why would you think those two positions are in contradiction?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|4074|BC, Canada
how are they not.
Adams_BJ
Warman is a hermaphrodite.
+2,022|4038|Little Bentcock

FEOS wrote:

Why would you think those two positions are in contradiction?
how aren't they? Say take dropping a rock for example. I hold a rock above my head and say that if it stays floating when I let go, it will go and become a big mountain or whatever rocks aspire to. However, if it drops, it will be crushed and used to seal the road on a very busy motor way. I will give the rock free will to do what it wants. However, I know full well it is going to drop well before I even drop it, so its fate is sealed. It hits the ground and it gets crushed up.

Same as when god make a person. He says if you live a good life you get to go to heaven, if you become evil and a sinner you get to suffer for eternity in hell, yet he already knows before he even makes you where you will end up.

So what is it? Do we have free will and he doesn't know all, or does he know all, and we don't have any free will at all, so god is just cruel and likes people to suffer for eternity in hell through no fault of their own?

Last edited by Adams_BJ (2011-12-23 04:32:44)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|3826|'Murka

Giving us free will and being omnipotent are not in contradiction.

He knows we will choose our own path based on having free will and gives us that freedom to choose. It is not predetermined what our path is...unless you are a Quaker, I suppose.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Adams_BJ
Warman is a hermaphrodite.
+2,022|4038|Little Bentcock

FEOS wrote:

Giving us free will and being omnipotent are not in contradiction.

He knows we will choose our own path based on having free will and gives us that freedom to choose. It is not predetermined what our path is...unless you are a Quaker, I suppose.
so he send you knowingly into an eternity of torture?

how do you choose something that we have no choice in? We end at A, or B. He knows which one. We don't get to change it, it was known before we were born.

Last edited by Adams_BJ (2011-12-23 04:36:48)

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