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Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|4066|Long Island, New York
I suggested Batman: AA and Mass Effect to a friend who's just getting into video gaming. He's been coming to me non-stop asking me stuff like "What the fuck is a Hanar?". Kind of funny.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|4295|UK

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

<-- moved from screenshots thread

Your noble justifications are not fucking cutting it anymore. In my last rant about piracy, one person said they pirated "out of necessity" and seemed to get some people agreeing with him. Really? Necessity? It is necessary  that you play a videogame? Since when was a luxury item like a videogame a necessity, to the point where you get to steal it? A fucking bit of bread for a dirt-poor family is a necessity, son. Not your stupid videogame.

Vilham wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

This assumes that people who pirate games would have otherwise bought them if they weren't available to pirate. I'm not going to say that piracy has never costed game developers sales, since that would be ignorant, but I'm not really going out on a limb when I say that it's not nearly as much as some people would have you believe.
No it doesn't. It simple states you don't need to have games, they aren't a necessity.
It does at that, but the article complains about damage done to the PC gaming industry by piracy. I contend that the majority of game pirates aren't really a viable market to care about or even acknowledge, and are in fact potential customers...who will, if anti-piracy ethics sink in, become legitimate customers who are already familiar with and/or addicted to your games/series. It's the group of people who pirate shit when they can otherwise afford to buy it that bother me, and those are the people all the strong-arm ads and legal battles should be targeting.

Some of the anti-piracy measures put into place (not just by video games) are so glitchy and restrictive that some of the pirated copies are actually functionally superior to legitimate ones. This is what is called stabbing yourself in the foot.

mtb0minime wrote:

So do you actually buy a game that you like after "sampling" it? Even if it's single-player only?
I do, and I've caught up on all the ones I did download. If I didn't download them to begin with, I probably wouldn't have bought them later when I had the money for it.
All irrelevant because of this simple point.

It only matters what the publishers think, if they think piracy is damaging their market badly, they won't release to it. End of argument.

Don't get me wrong I got into PC gaming because of pirated games, but then I grew up.

If you actually read the article it pretty much deals with every point you just made. Anti-piracy measures are put in because of pirates. Dev's that put their games out there with no protection in good faith get their games pirated to shit.

Last edited by Vilham (2011-02-15 01:52:22)

Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|3997

Poseidon wrote:

I suggested Batman: AA and Mass Effect to a friend who's just getting into video gaming. He's been coming to me non-stop asking me stuff like "What the fuck is a Hanar?". Kind of funny.
Is he too dumb to hit the pause button and go into the codex?
FloppY_
­
+1,010|3814|Denmark aka Automotive Hell
He doesn't even need the fucking codex since it's ME1 and the game explains the basics... but yeah if he hasn't read the codex just tell him to do so or stfu
­ Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,407|4270|FUCK UBISOFT

Vilham wrote:

If you actually read the article it pretty much deals with every point you just made. Anti-piracy measures are put in because of pirates. Dev's that put their games out there with no protection in good faith get their games pirated to shit.
But so do devs who release games bogged down with DRM...

DRM solves no problems, it only serves to create them.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/44874/FUCK%20UBISOFT%20RIGHT%20IN%20THE%20FUCKING%20ASS.png
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|4181|Amsterdam
someone provide me with conclusive proof of a developer losing profits to piracy and I might actually give a fuck

As for Crytek, they cried us a river about piracy despite EA mentioning the game outsold their expectations


(FYI I buy my games)
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|3528|Vortex Ring State
"Don't get me wrong I got into PC gaming because of pirated games, but then I grew up."

yup same

I got tired of playing TF2 and CS on laggy latvian servers and constantly having to torrent patches...
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|3999
that's like saying you were eventually convinced to buy a car after you had jacked a few and taken them joyriding.

it doesn't quite hold up, legally, nor morally. if somebody offers a good or service, there is an expectation of an EXCHANGE for it, i.e. your money.

people that justify piracy through all these tenuous, fatuous 'arguments' are just losing themselves in their own stupid, tangled logic.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|3528|Vortex Ring State

Uzique wrote:

that's like saying you were eventually convinced to buy a car after you had jacked a few and taken them joyriding.

it doesn't quite hold up, legally, nor morally. if somebody offers a good or service, there is an expectation of an EXCHANGE for it, i.e. your money.

people that justify piracy through all these tenuous, fatuous 'arguments' are just losing themselves in their own stupid, tangled logic.
mmmmm not really

I would say that pirating a game allowed me to experience the gameplay, but not at it's "prime", the best it could be, because I always had ~200ms ping.

it was like a demo for a game that dosen't have a demo, the gameplay was that limited.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|3999
such a bullshit justification. so if you didn't have 200m/s ping and if you weren't inconvenienced by the update-process, you would never buy the game? so much for "try before you buy". it's more like "buy because i'm eventually forced to". as i said, that's not the business-consumer model that the gaming industry operates upon. you PAY for a PRODUCT in a simple EXCHANGE. if you like the game or not afterwards... that's your problem. if you buy a new foodstuff from the supermarket and you don't like the taste of it, will you send a letter to the african farmer so they can remunerate you and compensate for your loss of opportunity? no. you pay for something straight-up. if a game's developer or publisher feels there should be a demo... there will be one. you downloading the game is a straight rip-off and has no benefit whatsoever. the fact you ended up buying the game is completely arbitrary and has little-to-nothing to do with the game's company.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,407|4270|FUCK UBISOFT

Uzique wrote:

the piracy-scapegoat is a very tired and overused excuse for the completely non-related decline in game production quality

as has been previously summarized: the design-aims and ethos of game companies is now slamming for the coffers of the lowest common denominators - as well as the cross-platform dollar.
This is what I personally believe.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/44874/FUCK%20UBISOFT%20RIGHT%20IN%20THE%20FUCKING%20ASS.png
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|3999

Miggle wrote:

Uzique wrote:

the piracy-scapegoat is a very tired and overused excuse for the completely non-related decline in game production quality

as has been previously summarized: the design-aims and ethos of game companies is now slamming for the coffers of the lowest common denominators - as well as the cross-platform dollar.
This is what I personally believe.
right, and video-game production and gaming piracy are two different issues...

i wouldn't say that pc gaming getting 'worse' is an excuse or reasoning for piracy... that only exacerbates the problem.

you're not going to incentivise or save an industry any time soon by ripping it off and then, furthermore, vocally complaining about it 24/7.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,741|4300|Banoi, PNG

TL:DR bullet points IRT responses:

  • If there was a demo, I more often than not downloaded it instead.
  • About 80% of the games I've pirated I would have otherwise had no interest in buying or looking at. As a result, developers have not only sold me the game when I actually had an income to buy it, but the rest of the associated series as well. Thus, my own kiddy acts of piracy have resulted in a sale outside dev's market. This isn't to say that most pirates would exercise the same integrity.
  • Even when I was pirating, if I played a game often enough, I'd do my best to scrape enough cash together to buy it.
  • I will never be convinced of the 1:1 connect between license and box theft. Grand theft or candy bar theft just isn't video game downloading, no matter how much attempts are made to define it as such. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed to iterate their rights over their IP, but having Black & White on a recorded CD (now converted into the legit game and its sequel) just isn't akin to driving a stolen Prius out of a car sales lot, or even sneaking out of a Gamestop with a DS title in your pocket.
  • Again, since I wasn't able to buy a lot of games during my period of games downloading and since it wasn't the physical box and disc, not only was I not depriving them of a customer (as I otherwise would have never bought), but I also wasn't ripping off factory production.
  • It's practical to have a token amount of DRM to inhibit casual copying procedures, but counter-productive to make them so punitive that it actually affects the enjoyment for legitimate customers. Forcing people to verify a single player game every time they log in (or or even activate an account through e-mail for one) or install rootkits on their computers isn't going to win you any brownie points when the pirated copy strips all that stuff away and is easier to work with than your retail.
  • I think the increasing impossibility of returns and trade-ins for PC games are hurting the industry far more than it will freely admit. Mentioning Uzique's response, you can return most grocery items if they don't coincide with your expectations (inferior quality, out of date, etc.). It's more difficult, however, to return a PC game due to a scratched disc to a brick & mortar outlet due to common store policy...DUE to unique CD key theft.

Don't get me wrong I got into PC gaming because of pirated games, but then I grew up.
This, pretty much. Yet all the emphasis is placed on how it's hurting the industry so much, when the numbers really are exaggerated and completely ignore the fact that so many people were introduced to the product through piracy.

On another note, how many professional Photoshop/Adobe Suite users would there be if it was never pirated? Who wants to 'just learn' on a product that is still prohibitively expensive even with proof of student status? Because the thing is pirated so much, once people go professional with their art in legit practice, they're more than likely going take the plunge and and Adobe because they're familiar with it.

==========

E:

http://steamcommunity.com/id/unnamednew … es?tab=all

Look at all this extraneous shit I have, and that's just the games I happen to own on Steam. There's also the Wii, N64, Sega Genesis, PS3, PS3, Gameboy, DS and PSP, with an average of about 10 games each (most of them for the PS2). I would have never gotten into the practice of playing a ton of games from a massive library if it hadn't been for my series/genre saturation due to piracy, and my current collection would have otherwise probably consisted of mainly Mario/Zelda/Sonic stuff, Half-Life stuff, iD stuff, Battlefield stuff, CoD stuff, Blizzard stuff and Minecraft.
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|3528|Vortex Ring State

Uzique wrote:

such a bullshit justification. so if you didn't have 200m/s ping and if you weren't inconvenienced by the update-process, you would never buy the game? so much for "try before you buy". it's more like "buy because i'm eventually forced to". as i said, that's not the business-consumer model that the gaming industry operates upon. you PAY for a PRODUCT in a simple EXCHANGE. if you like the game or not afterwards... that's your problem. if you buy a new foodstuff from the supermarket and you don't like the taste of it, will you send a letter to the african farmer so they can remunerate you and compensate for your loss of opportunity? no. you pay for something straight-up. if a game's developer or publisher feels there should be a demo... there will be one. you downloading the game is a straight rip-off and has no benefit whatsoever. the fact you ended up buying the game is completely arbitrary and has little-to-nothing to do with the game's company.
bleh I pirated it for the simple sake of trying the gameplay, because there was no demo.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|4028|so randum
anyway so this is probably the right thread. so in eve basically if you lose a ship its gone (no respawns and so on), this gives it a kind of consequences for your actions thingy going on.

now last night we had a big big cap battle (biggest evar i do believe) in which my duders got basically steamrolled. end result, like 10 titans and some other caps and stuff deaded.

the cool bit (imo) is what this translates to irl money (people buy and sell ingame currency for $ obv) - around $60k
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|2565|Massachusetts, USA

FatherTed wrote:

anyway so this is probably the right thread. so in eve basically if you lose a ship its gone (no respawns and so on), this gives it a kind of consequences for your actions thingy going on.

now last night we had a big big cap battle (biggest evar i do believe) in which my duders got basically steamrolled. end result, like 10 titans and some other caps and stuff deaded.

the cool bit (imo) is what this translates to irl money (people buy and sell ingame currency for $ obv) - around $60k
Remember when that one guy stole 20,000$ worth of ingame items from a corp? Or when jestar and cougar used to join mission corps and splode the really rich members of the corp and take their loot.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|4028|so randum
one of the first big ipo scams was some dude stealing like 10k then rmt'ing it and spending it on surgery for his kid

:eve:
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|2565|Massachusetts, USA

FatherTed wrote:

one of the first big ipo scams was some dude stealing like 10k then rmt'ing it and spending it on surgery for his kid

:eve:
I bet some asshole argued the shit out of that.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|3999
the whole real-world <-> game-world currency things raises all sorts of ethics questions.

so you're going to get a bunch of scumbags and desperate people in-game as you would online.

interesting but also raises further questions about legality. i know the EVE team take a really distanced approach to moderating the game-world... but when it amounts to thousands of dollars of real-world theft? hmm.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,741|4300|Banoi, PNG

EVE is a game. A casino-style defense against 'stealing people's money' could probably be used in support of real-world cash theft. If people know the risks going in, well...

Anyway, governments would probably take it more seriously if they could tax virtual wealth.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|4028|so randum

Uzique wrote:

the whole real-world <-> game-world currency things raises all sorts of ethics questions.

so you're going to get a bunch of scumbags and desperate people in-game as you would online.

interesting but also raises further questions about legality. i know the EVE team take a really distanced approach to moderating the game-world... but when it amounts to thousands of dollars of real-world theft? hmm.
if you get caught doing it they basically ban you, rape your children and torch your house. EvEs basically 'you can LITERALLY do what you want, as long as it's not going to get us in trouble with police' ofc how this works in practice with different people from different countries is another thing - a lot of the RMT'ing goes through russia and china who literally give no fucks about this sort of thing.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Kampframmer
Esq.
+313|2371|Amsterdam
It does show how people fare in a sort of "community"  without anyone enforcing any rules.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,760|3681|what

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

EVE is a game. A casino-style defense against 'stealing people's money' could probably be used in support of real-world cash theft. If people know the risks going in, well...

Anyway, governments would probably take it more seriously if they could tax virtual wealth.
Two things in life you can't avoid. Death - and Space taxes.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
FloppY_
­
+1,010|3814|Denmark aka Automotive Hell
So I bought and played Arkham Asylum today...


It's pretty good imo
I absolutely love the platforming parts & the gadgets
I absolutely hate the minibosses (1 big guy and tons of tiny idiots all hitting you at once..) they are so frustrating and über difficult compared to everything else...
­ Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|4066|Long Island, New York

FloppY_ wrote:

So I bought and played Arkham Asylum today...


It's pretty good imo
I absolutely love the platforming parts & the gadgets
I absolutely hate the minibosses (1 big guy and tons of tiny idiots all hitting you at once..) they are so frustrating and über difficult compared to everything else...
I love how you post this in total retaliation to the posts from the other thread. "Gonna prove them wrong alright, gonna SHOW THEM, yes I AM."

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