Announcement

Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/nf43FxS
Discuss.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4150|Canberra, AUS

Flecco wrote:

Anybody else watch Insiders this morning?
I was asleep
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|4140|NT, like Mick Dundee

Worth watching.


From what was said, Joe Hockey doesn't want to challenge until Turnbull backs down and the Liberals get a firm policy position on climate change and what should be done about it.

Turnbull will never back down and it's more likely to snow here before Tuesday than the Liberals getting a united policy position that quickly.

Nobody really mentioned Abbott.




Gg, Liberals, self-implosion imminent.
Australian culture is about two things, football and racism.

I never know what to kick.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,759|3628|what

Hockey has already stated he supports the Bill, both in parliament and to the public. The Government is holding Hockey to his word if he does challenge the leadership, and can say he went against a promise if he decides to follow the other Liberals. So that seems unlikely to happen.

However, Abbott has said he wouldn't run against Hockey.

https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|3975|so randum
neighbours is a pretty good tv show.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4150|Canberra, AUS

FatherTed wrote:

neighbours is a pretty good tv show.
fuck off

Last edited by Spark (2009-11-28 23:33:00)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|4076|132 and Bush

Is he spamming?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|3975|so randum
was making a funny since neighbours isnt shown in convict land afaik.

OT, wtf your politics are nearly as mental as NI
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|4076|132 and Bush

That's why I asked. I'm following this thread with hopes of actually learning something.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|3975|so randum
same, never really given much thought to aussie politiks, but they are seemingly crazy.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,759|3628|what

FatherTed wrote:

was making a funny since neighbours isnt shown in convict land afaik.

OT, wtf your politics are nearly as mental as NI
We have a tv show called Neighbours here, Ted.

So, now that you know.

Spark wrote:

fuck off
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4150|Canberra, AUS

Kmarion wrote:

Is he spamming?
no, it's just that neighbours is a shitpile that should be burnt with a blowtorch.

---

Well Turnbull ain't going down quietly, in fact he doesn't seem to be going down at all:


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 … 756567.htm
Federal Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull has attacked his Liberal opponents as wreckers who are destroying the party.

There is a strong feeling within the Opposition that the embattled Mr Turnbull cannot hold onto the leadership when his party votes in a spill on Tuesday.

This morning on Channel Nine he launched an attack on his critics, singling out Nick Minchin and Tony Abbott, calling their strategies "catastrophic" for the party.

"They will not give up until they have bullied and intimidated the majority into agreeing with their position," he said.

"These men are leading us into an electoral catastrophe."

Last edited by Spark (2009-11-28 23:47:06)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,759|3628|what

I've never liked the Liberals, and thought Turnbull really bungled the "Utegate" affair badly, but he is dead right with this one.

The Coalition is tearing itself apart and to not act on climate change would be the death of them for many elections to come.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|4076|132 and Bush

AussieReaper wrote:

I've never liked the Liberals, and thought Turnbull really bungled the "Utegate" affair badly, but he is dead right with this one.

The Coalition is tearing itself apart and to not act on climate change would be the death of them for many elections to come.
What specific action on climate change? What has the opposition presented?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|3697|Brisneyland

Anthony Green wrote:

Antony Green wrote:
If the party can't unite behind a decision to say yes to the CPRS legislation, I'm not sure they are any more likely to unite behind saying no. With the exception of Michael Johnston in Ryan, it seems to me the strong opponents of the CPRS hold safe seats or are Senators. It may be that the Coalition could adopt a stand in total opposition to the CPRS and go on to win the next election. I'm just yet to hear a senior Liberal frontbencher suggest that is what they want to do.
I really respect Anthony Greens take on things, but he is way off on this one. Numerous polls have shown that people actually want an ETS, and are worried about Climate change. I think if they opposed it totally they would be relegated to obscurity for a long time.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4150|Canberra, AUS
The opposition basically amended the govt's proposed cap-and-trade scheme (the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_Pol … ion_Scheme

Essentially an C/T scheme beginning in the middle of 2011 with 5% 2020 target of 2000 levels that is raised to 25% if a suitable global agreement is reached.

The wiki page is not very good as it doesn't list all the subsidies and compensation packages given out the coal/oil/LNG/industry, which is the main point of contention between the govt and opposition... basically the amendments Turnbull negotiated increases the amount of compensation to industry. However, despite supporting the amendments the party seems to not want to pass the scheme

EDIT: The actual legislation is here http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/gove … ation.aspx

PS. The reason this has all come to a head now is that for no apparent economic, diplomatic or environmental reason (but a very, very obvious political one) the government wants this passed before Copenhagen.

Last edited by Spark (2009-11-29 00:02:57)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|4076|132 and Bush

It looks like a disagreement between the house/senate.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4150|Canberra, AUS

Kmarion wrote:

Looks like a disagreement between the house/senate.
Basically.

The government, on its own, does not have the numbers to pass legislation in the senate:

      Party                                         Seats Held
      Australian Labor Party                    32
      Liberal/National coalition                 37
      Australian Greens                           5
      Family First Party                            1
      Independents                                 1
 

In essence: Labor has 32 seats, the Coalition has 37, the Greens have 5 (that number will rise), and then there's Fielding and Xenophon.

So in order to pass the legislation, the Government needs the support of both the Greens and either Fielding or Xenophon, or it needs the support of the Coalition. It can't get Greens support (they think the scheme is pathetically weak and the compensation to polluters is nothing short of a sellout), Xenophon usually sides with the Greens and Fielding... let's not go there, thus it needs Coalition support.

Last edited by Spark (2009-11-29 00:12:22)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|4076|132 and Bush

Do they vote against the party platform at all? I imagine not so much with an issue like climate.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4150|Canberra, AUS

Kmarion wrote:

Do they vote against the party platform at all? I imagine not so much with an issue like climate.
There currently is no party platform, that's the problem. The liberal-progressives like Turnbull, Hockey et al want action on climate change but are wary of economic costs. The conservatives like Minchin, Abbott etc. aren't climate change deniers per se but they are skeptics and while not opposed to the idea of an ETS are extremely cautious of economic costs. Then there are the crazies like Tuckey and the Nationals who use eyebrow raising arguments and rail against the ETS in the first place ("carbon dioxide is a fertilizer!").

But generally crossing the floor is extremely rare on an issue like this.

Last edited by Spark (2009-11-29 02:19:06)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|3697|Brisneyland

Kmarion wrote:

Do they vote against the party platform at all? I imagine not so much with an issue like climate.
That depends. The Labor party seems to do all of its negotiating behind closed doors (Labor Caucus). The negotiations are pretty fierce, but when they come to a decision they generally tow the party line ( whether individuals like it or not).
The Liberal party does this to some extent but there seems to be more of a degre of lattitude. If individuals dont agree with policy they may not always tow party line. More often than not , they do though. This makes the Labor party slightly inflexible, but sort of solid. But the Liberals have a bit more chance to speak their mind, although it can make the party seem weaker.

With this issue, Labor is staying with party platform, while the Liberals seem to be following a number of positions.
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|3697|Brisneyland
Also looks like Hockey as opposition leader on Monday, Dutton as deputy. He promised he wouldnt challenge Turnbull yesterday. But seems happy to break that promise today. I also saw on the news that Hockey came out of a meeting with John Howard today. I am not suprised he had his mits all over this one. He is probably the most cunning/conniving politician there ever was. And he hated Turnbull for being too liberal.

Hockey is probably a smarter idea for the Libs because he is reasonably moderate, and seems to have some standing with the ultra conservatives. I guess he feels that the party cant afford to continue to take this political damage, and he must stand up and take the leadership.
Like I said before he is a political lightweight, so its interesting to see if he can make a go of it.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4150|Canberra, AUS
Meh. I hope that Turnbull wins, personally. Guy has balls and brains, a rarity in politics.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|3697|Brisneyland

Spark wrote:

Meh. I hope that Turnbull wins, personally. Guy has balls and brains, a rarity in politics.
Totally agree there. Turnbull is the kind of person that should be leading the liberals. Having said that, I get the impression that his position is untenable, and the party seeks to limit the damage its receieved lately. They want to clear the slate, and thats where Hockey comes in. He talks to the moderates/ and can deal with the ultra cons. This may also make him a bit of a jack of all trades , good at none ( so to speak).
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4150|Canberra, AUS
I would point something out here. Everyone talks about Turnbull alienating the base, but this isn't America and since there is compulsary attendance here, how many wouldn't bother to vote? The overwhelming majority would vote liberal come rain hail or shine. Alienation of the base only comes when the base doesn't bother to show up, but since you have to show up... I'm pretty sure most, having been made to show up at the voting hall, would actually vote.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,759|3628|what

The point is spark, that those who are die hard Liberals and would vote Liberal anyway, are the people that are arguing to Abbott that they should reject this bill.

Why the Coalition think moving further to the right is good strategy is anyone's guess. They are fighting for votes they would be getting anyway.

edit:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/op … 5804740400

This was a good take on it ^

Last edited by AussieReaper (2009-11-29 03:35:05)

https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2017 Jeff Minard