Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|3637|Brisneyland
This thread is aimed at Aussies that want to discuss political issues that dont necessarily warrant a new topic. Aussie news barely rates at a global level, but the Aussies on the forum would probably like to talk about Aussie politics as a general topic. I dont see this being an Australians only topic either, so anyone else can post if they have something relevant.

Anyway to start...

I think its crazy that the govt is about to implement an ETS , but all the news services can do is focus on an opposition that is quickly self destructing. This should be a time when the opposition can really make up some ground, but they keep getting bogged down by ridiculous squabbles. I am not sure if the ALP has some absolute genius political strategician on their side, or the opposition are a pack of dopes.
( for what its worth, I support the ETS for the most part although I think its a bit too weak).
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,759|3568|what

Burwhale wrote:

This should be a time when the opposition can really make up some ground, but they keep getting bogged down by ridiculous squabbles.
And that's exactly what Turnbull could have been doing, he argued quite a bit to change the ETS that Labour were trying to push and that's part of the reason you and I think it has become weakened. I was really surprised and the concessions Rudd gave, like exemptions to agriculture in it's entirety. Turnbull could have been telling the public that the concessions Labour have made, this proof of a good policy that the Libs created.

Abbott will have the leadership next week, imo.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,590|3521|eXtreme to the max
ETS is a poor idea, a carbon tax would be much more logical.

Its interesting the roles have flipped around, not so long ago it was Labour going off the deep end.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4090|Canberra, AUS
I'm very mindful of the fact that you do not create a low-carbon economy by destroying several industries with a stick, which is what the Greens seem to be forgetting. Otherwise I agree with you.

Dilbert_X wrote:

ETS is a poor idea, a carbon tax would be much more logical.

Its interesting the roles have flipped around, not so long ago it was Labour going off the deep end.
This, and this. I'm hoping Turnbull can fix the second.

Last edited by Spark (2009-11-26 04:23:26)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|4080|NT, like Mick Dundee

Posted thoughts on Australian politics in the other thread.


I could probably agree with bits and pieces of the National Party's policies if the silly bastards weren't so blind.
Australian culture is about two things, football and racism.

I never know what to kick.
BVC
Member
+323|4110
At least your agriculture sector has an ETS exemption, count yourselves lucky.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4090|Canberra, AUS
PRobably gonna be a double-dissolution some time early next year, fought on climate change/ets.

I suspect if that happens then it won't look good at all for the Coalition.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,590|3521|eXtreme to the max

Pubic wrote:

At least your agriculture sector has an ETS exemption, count yourselves lucky.
Which is the stupidest part of the whole deal.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4090|Canberra, AUS
Oh, and two by-elections coming up in a week in "safe" Liberal seats... Labor not contesting, only the Greens. What with the events of the last week we might see a lot closer results than expected.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|3637|Brisneyland
True , maybe a few more Greens in the lower house. Probably not a bad thing.
At the moment I think the govt must be itching for the opposition to give them a trigger for a double dissolution ( I dont think they have one yet). It would probably be a blood bath (blue blood in this case). Having said that , I dont think the Australian population likes elections as such, in fact , the early election in Queensland could have backfired for labor. Bligh was lucky no one liked the opposition leader at the time.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4090|Canberra, AUS

Burwhale wrote:

True , maybe a few more Greens in the lower house. Probably not a bad thing.
At the moment I think the govt must be itching for the opposition to give them a trigger for a double dissolution ( I dont think they have one yet). It would probably be a blood bath (blue blood in this case). Having said that , I dont think the Australian population likes elections as such, in fact , the early election in Queensland could have backfired for labor. Bligh was lucky no one liked the opposition leader at the time.
If the ETS is referred to committee which is the most probable outcome then they'll have to wait 'til February before they can get a trigger probably.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|3637|Brisneyland
At the moment it looks as if Hockey will be leader with Dutton as 2IC ( who the hell is Dutton I hear you ask?). Hockey is a bit of a political lightweight, but at least he doesnt seem to be an ultra-conservative. He seems to not really want the job, but will only do it if Turnbull stands down....Which Turnbull refuses to do. This is more exciting than a soap opera. I think Hockey will be a bit more popular, but probably out of his depth. You dont really hear much from him as shadow treasurer.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|4080|NT, like Mick Dundee

Dilbert_X wrote:

Pubic wrote:

At least your agriculture sector has an ETS exemption, count yourselves lucky.
Which is the stupidest part of the whole deal.
Well are you willing to have the price of your food go up? People already whine about the price of food, the drought has put huge pressure on the agricultural sector and now this?

@ Burwhale;

Hockey was the Minister in charge of Employment when the Liberals slammed through Work Choices. He used to appear on Sunrise every week with Kev.
Australian culture is about two things, football and racism.

I never know what to kick.
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|3637|Brisneyland
Hey Flecco. Yeah I know who Hockey is. Its Dutton that is a bit of a mystery. Seems he abandoned his QLD seat to get a more stable seat in the Gold Coast. But the Nats had that one sewnup, so he had to return to his original marginal seat with his tail between his legs. Hard to say if he can keep it as his electorate feels a bit betrayed.

Last edited by Burwhale (2009-11-27 03:36:56)

Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4090|Canberra, AUS
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2009/s2755828.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2009/s2755825.htm

I think Brown's analysis is pretty accurate.

SABRA LANE: How do you think this is going to play out next week? Do you think the guillotine will be used on Monday? Do you think it will be filibustered out and they'll just have to refer it off?

BOB BROWN: The most obvious thing is that this will debated with no result on Monday and therefore the emissions trading scheme will be in limbo.

SABRA LANE: And that raises the prospect that the Government will now argue that this legislation has failed to pass Parliament and bring on a double dissolution election.

BOB BROWN: That's exactly it. It will have good reason if it wants to. Mr Rudd's not a risk taker. The Opposition will never be more more vulnerable, regardless of who's in the leadership chair after Monday morning's meeting.

So we're in for a rather anxious summer as far as the body politic is concerned. We Greens know where we're going. We are very settled and strong in our base and in our leadership if I can say that and in our public support which is growing.

So whatever happens next year we're going to be aiming for a much better climate change legislation.

SABRA LANE: This morning Malcolm Turnbull accused his dissenters of underwriting the demise of the party. What do you think will happen to the Coalition as a result of what's played out over this?

BOB BROWN: This is the biggest split of a political party since the Labor split of the 1950s and it's the first time this has happened due to an environmental issue. I think the split is so deep and has been so hurtful to the Coalition that they won't recover.

And it's seen a reorientation of the National Party away from its farming base to the coal mining industry. You can't have it both ways. We're seeing a real transformation of Australian politics here.

SABRA LANE: Do you care to look into your crystal ball and tell me what you think might happen if there's a double dissolution election?

BOB BROWN: I think a double dissolution election would see Australians wanting, at this stage, reindorsing the Government but I think they're going to swing strongly to alternatives away from the big parties who have failed to get the legislation up that the public wants.

And we'll see a stronger Greens presence in the Senate if not in the House of Representatives.

Last edited by Spark (2009-11-27 03:53:36)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
d4rkph03n1x
Member
+131|4164|Gold Coast, Australia

Tbh politics of my own country doesn't even bother me. I just play games, work, and drink.. I'll be back in 3 years when I can be bothered caring who does what. Just don't fuck with my internets and i'll be fine.
Not really a member of the community. More like a bystander.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,759|3568|what

I'd love to see a stronger Greens as a result of this.

They shouldn't have to go the way of the Democrat party, which they may well do further down the line.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,590|3521|eXtreme to the max

Flecco wrote:

Well are you willing to have the price of your food go up? People already whine about the price of food, the drought has put huge pressure on the agricultural sector and now this?.
Why not give coal fired power stations a free pass then?
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|4080|NT, like Mick Dundee

Dilbert_X wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Well are you willing to have the price of your food go up? People already whine about the price of food, the drought has put huge pressure on the agricultural sector and now this?.
Why not give coal fired power stations a free pass then?
Different industries with different ramifications if they are hit with a big stick.

I'd be the first supporter of modern agriculture being replaced by sustainable styles of farming such as permaculture but that's not gonna happen. It'd probably be easier to get G.W.B elected US President again that it would be to convince the general public of the western world that modern agriculture is an unsustainable and inefficient method for producing food.
Australian culture is about two things, football and racism.

I never know what to kick.
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|3637|Brisneyland
Yeah Bob browns bit seems pretty accurate. I feel a bit sorry for some Liberals ( although I have never been a supporter of them) because some of them genuinely care about the environment. Unfortunately the conservative throwbacks from the Howard era have yet to realise that the rest of the country has moved on. Good govt need s good opposition. Maybe the Greens can take the place of the opposition for a while.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Why not give coal fired power stations a free pass then?
At the moment, I think the coal fired power stations are getting what looks like a free pass. But I guess once the legislation is in, it can be ramped up in future.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,590|3521|eXtreme to the max
Different industries with different ramifications if they are hit with a big stick.

I'd be the first supporter of modern agriculture being replaced by sustainable styles of farming such as permaculture but that's not gonna happen. It'd probably be easier to get G.W.B elected US President again that it would be to convince the general public of the western world that modern agriculture is an unsustainable and inefficient method for producing food.
But you can say that about anything.
The key is to tax carbon and let the market figure it out.

As for agriculture, maybe people will have to stop eating so much beef for example, which is horribly inefficient in terms of greenhouse gases and water used.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4090|Canberra, AUS

AussieReaper wrote:

I'd love to see a stronger Greens as a result of this.

They shouldn't have to go the way of the Democrat party, which they may well do further down the line.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian … tion,_2008

They won't.

Legislative Assembly, 2008
Party     Vote %     Seats
Labor     37.4     ↓9.5     7     ↓2
Liberals     31.6     ↓3.2     6     0
Greens     15.6     ↑6.4     4     ↑3
Independents             0     ↓1
No majority
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|4080|NT, like Mick Dundee

Dilbert_X wrote:

As for agriculture, maybe people will have to stop eating so much beef for example, which is horribly inefficient in terms of greenhouse gases and water used.
Yep.


Tbh eat roos. The mince is great for bolognese sauce and such. Sausages aren't much good though.
Australian culture is about two things, football and racism.

I never know what to kick.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|4090|Canberra, AUS
Of interest:

Antony Green wrote:

If the party can't unite behind a decision to say yes to the CPRS legislation, I'm not sure they are any more likely to unite behind saying no. With the exception of Michael Johnston in Ryan, it seems to me the strong opponents of the CPRS hold safe seats or are Senators. It may be that the Coalition could adopt a stand in total opposition to the CPRS and go on to win the next election. I'm just yet to hear a senior Liberal frontbencher suggest that is what they want to do.
Read into that what you will, I certainly know what I think of that.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|4080|NT, like Mick Dundee

Anybody else watch Insiders this morning?
Australian culture is about two things, football and racism.

I never know what to kick.

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